Things you should never say in front of childless women

[Clothrabbit]

Just following on from another thread I started, what things have childless women on here had said to or in front of them, or read celebs spouting in public, that really hurt or upset them.

For me:

You don't know what real responsibility is until you have a child.
Having a child makes you less selfish.

You're very kind, thank you! There are so many awesome, witty, intelligent women on MN in a similar boat, I can only thank you from the bottom of my heart because it's the community of women who are members of the club no one wants to join who've kept me going throughout this shitty journey. to you all

This week I'm posting 'awful insensitive comments I've received' on my infertility instagram account - I suspect there will be lots that many of you will sadly recognise!

I've been trying to think of something to say to you @Leighhalfpennysthigh since I read your story a couple of nights ago but words and saying 'I'm sorry' just don't seem enough.

I can only echo what @bananafish81 said, that it's deep tragic, desperately unfair and not your fault.

I had my DS after 3 years of TTC and a failed IVF and have spent the last 2 years - and over £20k on failed IVF - trying to give him a sibling. Before we had DS my DH told me to leave him and find someone who could give me children (we have Male factor).

So although I'm not childless, I have experienced the feelings that @bananafish81 has stated upthread. It's devastating.

I really hope you don't mind me posting, I want to give my support but I didn't want to not say I had a son either.

Leigh - what an awful thing to have to think . Hopefully you are able to believe that it’s just your mind taking you to its darkest place/biggest fear, and not actually the truth. I’m so sorry.

Sorry for Bold fail!

leigh I know there’s nothing anyone can say to make things better but just know you’ve got the Uber barrens in your corner.

It is a comfort to be able to share our stories/journeys with people going through the same issues.

I'm so sorry to hear how difficult your journey has been Leigh

I have been reading this thread out of interest although I do wish MN will close it down. I think user is experiencing bullying. Whether or not you like or agree with her, the personal attacks on her by many is nasty and bullying.
I have also read things such as people experessing that the loss of a young woman’s life is the same whether she had children or not. This is silly, if a young woman dies and leave behind two young children those children will experience trauma, grief, loss, abandonment and insecure attachment.
To be upset that days out which are aimed mostly at children are called family days is being really sensitive.

Leo are you trying to start another bunfight?

You are free to report anything you think is bullying leo.

@Clothrabbit

Please don’t start the crap with me. For the most part I agree with what the posters ave said and I have gained insight into some of the difficulties women who do not have children experience, in turn I will think about what I say in future.
Every other post I read is somewhat hostile towards a particular user and I don’t agree with that.
I DO NOT want to be the victim of any further threads thank you

Leo of course it's a tragedy

It's a devastating loss for any child to lose their mother. That trauma will live with them forever

The point made on this thread is that for many childless women, we recognise that fact and it reminds us that when we die, our loss will be less important

That when we die, it has less of an impact than if a mother dies

I certainly have considered whether there's any point in being on this earth if I can't have children, because really who would miss me if I wasn't here? I don't have a legacy. I don't have any dependents. What difference would it make if I wasn't here?

We're not saying that the loss of a mother isn't desperately tragic. We're saying that we feel lesser than, because our loss feels less meaningful

We're not trying to do down mothers. Simply to express and acknowledge each other's pain

"People expressing that the loss of a young woman’s life is the same whether she had children or not. This is silly"

It's not 'silly', it's a valid opinion, despite it being different to yours.

And I say that as someone whose parent died when I was a child.

Some of us happen to believe that losing someone is tragic and sad enough as it is, and it doesn't become any less important or grief worthy just because they didn't happen to have children.

Having claimed you have read the thread, and within that some of the very personal and devastating stories on this very topic of loss and grief, a little more sensitivity would have been befitting.

That’s really sad to read @ banafish.
To me a legacy is not just what you pass down to your children but how you have touched the lives of others and the wisdom they have learned from you that they will be able to pass on to others.
But I do understand what you are saying.

"Please don’t start the crap with me."

If you speak to me with respect, I'll speak to you with respect. But this thread had calmed down and gone back to the topic of its origin, and you seemed to come on with no intention other than to rile things up again. Please don't do that. There is so much of use on this thread, so we can we keep on topic.

People can leave just as much, if not more legacy, in spite of not leaving dependents.

Look back through history.

It is the social narrative (including posters on here) telling us that our lives are less important and our deaths therefore less tragic that makes people feel this way.

Banana - you are already leaving a huge legacy through the work you are doing

@clothrabbit

You accused me of starting a bunfight that doesn’t seem very respectful.

I think, because I don't have my own children, I have had the time and space to be a very involved aunt. I really believe I have affected their lives in certain ways, and that gives me some comfort.

Please, just stop it leo. People have shared heartbreaking stories in this thread.

You don’t agree with points made. Fair enough. You’ve said your piece. We all know how you feel. Just leave it now.

Leo

Can we leave it please. I think your post was ill placed, given that the thread had almost been closed and after it was agreed to keep it open everyone respectfully shared experiences and kept to the topic of the thread. Your post interjecting, bringing up User etc really wasn't appropriate.

Anyhow I don't want to see this thread derailed again, so I won't be getting into an argument. You obviously feel your post was appropriate, I don't.

But real love with your child is different and far more than any other real love.
Why isn't a mother allowed to have that view???

Oh my goodness I can’t believe I just read that. Has it not occurred to you that other people are not so shallow they are capable of deeply and really loving more people than just their children? I think you’re highlighting your own inability to form meaningful relationships other than your kids rather than making any salient point about how childless people feel love.

Bananafish81 Your last post has made me feel so sad that you would feel this way, and that it may be the result of the way parents treat you and speak to you.

I have followed this thread as I have found it interesting and helpful in making sure I am more sensitive to the way my friends who do not have friends feel, and also interacting with others on Mumsnet.

I think whether you have children or not, it matters more about the compassion and kindness you bring to those around you, which is the legacy you leave.

Many have lost parents who perhaps didn't leave as great a mark on their lives. But have been more influenced by a wonderful friend, boss, sister, auntie etc.

You don't have to be a parent to make an impact on peoples lives and leave lasting and beautiful memories behind.

Socially childless here although I now have a DP who probably doesn't want children and I'm running out of time.

I think about how pointless my life is in the eyes of the world every day. I'm surrounded by babies and pregnant women in my job every day. At least one person a week on my Facebook is getting married or announcing a pregnancy.

I get it. I am a failure. You pity me. My chronic illness won't match your 'parent tiredness' and my worries won't ever match your worries because my worries won't impact my (non existent) children.

I'm not even 100% sure I want children. It would have been nice to have the chance to try or make that decision. The previous poster who said it's the real taboo was right. Nobody 'wants' to talk about their infertility. But how do you say to someone when they push you on why you have no children 'I'm so terrible that nobody will even think of procreating with me'? Or 'I would have liked to but if I want to stay in my relationship I have to accept it will not happen'?

Sorry friends without children I meant to say!

To clarify: I'm not saying that not being able to try is as bad as infertility or mc. Absolutely not. It's a different sort of sadness. It's just a tricky one to explain to anyone because it essentially is down to your own failings as a social human and makes you Socially Unacceptable.