Things you should never say in front of childless women

[Clothrabbit]

Just following on from another thread I started, what things have childless women on here had said to or in front of them, or read celebs spouting in public, that really hurt or upset them.

For me:

You don't know what real responsibility is until you have a child.
Having a child makes you less selfish.

MadgeMidgerson I don't actually disagree. I have absolutely no objection to parents staying home with sick children or leaving early to pick up etc...

I also often refrain from taking holidays through the summer because I know it's a struggle for parents and I can go anytime of the year.

What I don't agree with is someone making a choice to have a child and also making a choice to work in an environment where you may possibly be expected to work over something like Christmas but thinking 'its okay, the childless people will cover me'.

Sorry no, I have empathy for people. But my family is more important to me at Christmas than yours. Why should I, year after year, not spend the day with them because you chose to have children and then expected me to cover it for you so you don't have to sacrifice any Christmases yourself.

And perhaps there's a lot of emotion on this thread (you call it aggression) because it started about what hurts people without children and since then we've been told over and over what we should and shouldn't feel and now what we should and shouldn't sacrifice for your children.

I never called anyone aggressive, I think you must have me confused with some other mum in the monolith

I don’t think anyone on this thread is covering themselves in glory

My mistake it was Mama who made the aggressive comment. Apologies.

feel however you want to feel, others will feel however they want to feel too

I respectfully disagreed, I didn’t tell anybody and immediately got jumped on with aggression (yes because that is what it was). Is there no room for discussion?

I remember full well what hurt me in those dark years, every time someone told me they were pregnant I went back into the dark place. I had every single comment that has been listed said to me at one point or another, thrown in with ‘it wasn’t meant to be’ which is the most hurtful thing of all and used to crush me. I still grieve for my lost babies to this day. So yes I understand and the pain on here is palpable.

What I’m trying to say is a ‘them vs us’ outlook only serves to grow pain and resentment.

I've not been aggressive. Sorry that it's come across that way.

You said what you believed, I told you why I disagreed. Is that not a discussion? I've not told you you're a horrible person or to bugger off which would be aggressive. You say is it not okay to have a different view point but then call us aggressive for having a different one to you...

PS. I genuinely am sorry to hear what you went through too. It's an awful awful thing. No one deserves it.

I didn’t say it was aggressive because there was disagreement, that is putting words in my mouth. It was aggressive because the tone of some posters was one of attack and assumption rather than discussion.It doesn’t have to be swearing and character assassinations to be aggressive. You disgreed it was aggressive and I disagree with you, probably best to leave that there otherwise it becomes a circular argument.

Thanks

What I’m trying to say is a ‘them vs us’ outlook only serves to grow pain and resentment

Yes it does. Which is why so many of us are sharing our stories here so you understand where we are coming from and understand us a little bit more. We are constantly hurt and dismissed. Why are some parents needs more important than others? Why should my have had to spend the first Christmas without my mother alone? Which he did because I'd had to work, because there was no one else willing to walk shifts with me even though they knew my mother had just died and knew that I had lost my husband only the year before and so would spend Christmas alone.

It is nit about us being selfish and needy, it is about us being accorded the same respect as you would show someone who has managed to reproduce successfully. Even if they had struggled to do so.

It is amazing how people can change their views so quickly though. So easy to forget once you're on the other side.

I had a friend who has just given birth at 40 to her first. Up until she found out she was pregnant, she was incredibly sensitive to all the things said on here and really felt the pain of not being 'in the club'. She didn't have fertility issues, just hadn't met someone until then.

Even just a week or so after giving birth her Facebook feed is already full of the sickly self important motherhood memes she uses to detest and shoutouts to the mamas, only we know this that and the other, and belittling all those not 'in the club'.

I think this is the difference though between not yet having had your baby and being faced with the very real and likely situation that you will never have a baby. It's two very different things.

Then we'll agree to disagree :) all the best

you don’t like seeing her post on Facebook about enjoying motherhood? Why not mute her instead of trying to police her feelings?

have you considered that things you say may be insensitive and hurtful to others, or are you the only one in life who suffers?

"It's made look at it in a whole different light.
I will be very weary around child less women in future."

It would be a much more hopeful place if someone were instead to say

"It's made look at it in a whole different light.
I will be much more considerate and sensitive around child less women in future."

If only.

I will be very weary around child less women in future

They will already be wary around you. We all are. It's the nature of knowing you'll never have a baby in a world centred around babies and children and mothers.

I’m not sure you need to be weary Herehere just sensitive Walk a mile in someone’s shoes.

Have you actually read my posts Leigh? I know exactly where you are coming from.

"It's made look at it in a whole different light.
I will be much more considerate and sensitive around child less women in future

No chance with some of the people on this board. Who reflect so many people and their views in real life. I think I'll just carry on shutting myself away and not engaging with the world when I'm not working.

I will be very weary around child less women in future.

I hope you'll look back on this in a while and realise how pathetic it makes you sound. But, judging by some of previous posts, I don't think you will.

I will be very weary around child less women in future

I think you're not getting the fact that the anger in some of the posts shows how hurt those posters have been. It's a lonely place to be when you can't have a baby of your own, particularly when those who are parents make insensitive comments. Like my SIL who has had 5 children telling me I shouldn't have IVF because of the 'spare embryos'.

What you're seeing is how your infertile friends are really feeling, but are not able to say IRL. I didn't express what I felt mostly, it's just too personal.

It's also true that it's very easy to forget once you have a family. I have my 2 adopted DDs now and the pain I went through is long gone now. I hear myself moaning about my frustrations and tiredness as a mum and I know I could easily upset someone without realising it.

One thing I would never say to a childless woman, though, is that she doesn't understand real tiredness/real love or whatever because she hasn't had children. It would really have upset me in the days when I was desperate to conceive.

And don't pretend to understand, you really don't.

You can’t get back a Christmas morning opening presents with your parents.

It’s absolutely fine. Plenty of children have parents who have to work Christmas morning. I certainly did. There are ways around it that don’t involve telling people without children that their private lives aren’t as important as those with children and their Christmases don’t matter as much.

Mine did too. Don't remember a Christmas morning when one or the other was at work. We just did Christmas morning when they were there. So,e years they were both working on Christmas Day, we would spend those with one set of grandparents or the other. It was just normal for the three of us amd we didn't know different. All of us have chosen careers that involve some Christmas work some years. We suck it up and do it when it is our turn. But I'm nit going to take on Christmas shifts every year just because I was the childless one. As it is I don't work Christmas anymore as I'm freelance and I have that choice. I do, however, spend that time with ,y nieces and nephews, often looking after them when their parents are working.

@PurpleDaisies agreed. My father was a police officer and some years had to work Christmas. It was par for the course of the profession he chose to do. I still had perfectly lovely Christmases.

That's great and glad it did not spoil Christmas. It was my own personal view regarding Christmas I was expressing, understand that others don't have the same viewpoint.

I was the childless person volunteering to do Christmas so others with children could have the day. I purely wanted to point out that not every childless person felt the same way that's all.