Things you should never say in front of childless women

[Clothrabbit]

Just following on from another thread I started, what things have childless women on here had said to or in front of them, or read celebs spouting in public, that really hurt or upset them.

For me:

You don't know what real responsibility is until you have a child.
Having a child makes you less selfish.

I have children, but would never dream of saying "but you'll never understand because you don't have children...." to ANYONE. Internet or otherwise. Can't you understand how patronising it is? Posters are telling you this, and still you argue your point!! PLEASE LISTEN TO THEM

How bloody rude & insensitive

This article from Bibi Lynch in the Telegraph is framed as things not to say to a childless woman over 50. But the advice is pretty universal for a childless woman of any age

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/family/relationships/10-things-never-say-childless-woman-50-believe/

Let's just note #3

3. ‘You don’t know what exhaustion is.’

I was talking to my aunt about needing to talk to my sister (a mum of two) about something. ‘I wouldn’t call her now. She’s shattered. You don’t know what it’s like – you don’t have kids.’
^
Well thank you for kindly stating the obvious, Aunt of the Year. And thank you too for completely negating my fatigue. I mean, sure, I often don’t sleep due to devastation and depression about not having children – and not wanting to dream (again) about holding a baby and waking up in floods of tears.^

Living with infinite grief is debilitatingly exhausting. And, of course, parents have the gorgeous joy of their gorgeous child to counteract their crushing tiredness.

But you are right: I don’t have children and my enervation is not valid. Thank you for pointing out that parents have the monopoly on tiredness. Good to know.

I've learnt from this thread and that is never mention anything about children to women who don't have any (unless you want your head bitten off)

It's really quite upsetting that thats what you've decided to take away from this. I don't understand why some people just can't be sensitive to other people's suffering without acting like it's something they shouldn't have to do and playing victim when called on it.

You aren't the victim here...really you aren't.

I'd like to ask a question herehere... Have you ever suffered from fertility issues or infertility? Or just chosen to not have children because that's your right to do so but continued to have people make remarks to you over and over about it?

If you have then I'm very sorry. I'd have thought it would make you a bit more sympathetic.

If you haven't, then I don't understand how you can think it's okay to tell us what should and shouldn't be offended by?

Bibi Lynch's article is excellent - thanks for the link, @bananfish81.

@bananafish81 I love that article! Thank you.

The last paragraphs are pretty bang on

All you have to do is not repeat any of the above horrors. Don’t do the ‘so sorry’ head tilt (we want your love and support, not your pity), and don’t, in your head, define us just as women who didn’t have children.

If you don’t think that – don’t talk to us like that – it will help us to not think that way about ourselves, too. I hate to quote Ronan Keating at you, but I’m going to – when it comes to you asking about us not having kids (when we don’t want to talk; when we’re not ready to talk), you say it best when you say nothing at all. Bravo, Ronan.

Thank you Bananafish81!

Agree with that article.

What I don't are parents talking about their children, what they are up to, funny stories, how they are doing etc, you know, normal stuff about their lives. The chances are I know their children and care about how they are doing and am interested anyway.

What isn't ok is:

Using their children as a tool to make me feel inadequate
Never being the one to make an effort with our friendship
Using being a parent to get out of working
Questioning me about my barren state when it is fairly fucking obvious that I don't want to talk about it (because I say so)
Telling me to do online dating and meet someone else, stop wallowing and get in with it because I've still got time to "pop one out". There was so much wrong with that I can't even go there right here, right now, but suffice to say we don't speak anymore
Endlessly telling me how wonderful being a parent is
Telling me, who has suffered from crippling insomnia for 6 years that I don't know what tiredness is
Telling me I don't know what love is
Accusing me of treating my dogs like baby substitutes
Telling me I don't deserve to live in my lovely big house as it's just me and I should give it to my brother as he has 3 children and it's such a lovely family home (my brother has an equally lovely home, as does my sister and we are mostly pretty close - apart from the odd incident where he tries to get me to pay for my nieces' private education)

Get out if working bank holidays, Christmas etc....not working in general, sorry

Using being a parent to get out of working

Not sure what you mean by this one?

Sorry just saw your explanation. Bank holidays etc I agree with you, Christmas not really in agreement sorry.

Sorry Mama - I'm typing on my phone and not very good at it. It was a genuine mistake.

So I don't get to spend Christmas with my family then? Righto

Christmas not really in agreement sorry

So we should work Christmases for you so you get to spend it with your family..?

Are you serious @MamaOotie?

You honestly think you have more right to have days off at Christmas just because you have children?

You realise that having children is a choice you make. You shouldnt get automatic privilege over others to spend holidays with your family because of it.

Mama a lot of people without children are left work at the end of the day because they “have nothing to rush home to”, or are automatically expected to work bank holidays, Christmas, etc. because they are “family times”. Don’t get me started on the colleagues I’ve had who absolutely must rush off an hour early to collect a sick child but come in the following day with their balayage redone perfectly.

Until I married for a second time there were no children but if I didn’t go home for Christmas my elderly mother would have sat at home alone and I would have sat alone 400 miles away. Is supporting an elderly relative not family time enough for some people?

And if you think you should, then maybe you should choose to work in a profession which does not operate over the Christmas period.

This thread is proof that not only does nobody understand anyone, they don't want to either.

virtually everyone, parent or not sounds like an empathy vacuum

it’s depressing as shit

I think a lot of people are overly aggressive on this thread and jumping to conclusions about posters who raise opposing viewpoints. Just look at the aggression in response to one respectful remark I have made.

Before you judge, I went through heart breaking childlessness. I lost 4 babies over a 6 year period. I was told it was unlikely I would carry to full term again. So please don’t make assumptions, I know how horrible all this feels. But I do think christmas is special for children. When I was going through my absolute darkest times I still volunteered for Christmas duties because I felt then and still do today that children deserve to have their parent with them when they wake up on christmas morning. I appreciate the argument that elderly people can be very lonely at Christmas and deserve to have their family with them, but this can be managed and timings can be juggled on Christmas Day. You can’t get back a Christmas morning opening presents with your parents. I’m sorry if that is upsetting but that is how I feel.

I’m not adding this to be goady but to temper the view that all childless people feel the same.

you’d hate me, LostInShowbiz I stayed home with my sick child last week bc DH could not (we take turns and to be fair to him, he tends to stay home with them more often than me)

and then, that evening, when DH has returned i went out to a pub quiz

I think youve totally misunderstood my point. I’m saying I work with a lot of CFs that claim they have a sick child but it’s an excuse to clock off early for personal appointments. I have no objection to anyone staying at home with a child who is actually sick, or who is sick themselves. I spent at least one day per week since schools went back either off work or working from home because of family illnesses.

My mother once said that those without children shouldn't be allowed to vote because when you vote 'you're doing it for your kids' future, not your own.'
She denies ever having said this now though. I also get sick of being told that I don't have a family. I do, I have parents, siblings and 5 nieces and nephews, just because I don't have kids doesn't mean I don't have a family.

Well, I’m sure anyone hearing about me going to the pub will have assumed I was taking the piss too.

I can’t see how you would know that they are faking child illnesses unless they’re telling you, in which case why not report instead of having a moan here?