Things you should never say in front of childless women

[Clothrabbit]

Just following on from another thread I started, what things have childless women on here had said to or in front of them, or read celebs spouting in public, that really hurt or upset them.

For me:

You don't know what real responsibility is until you have a child.
Having a child makes you less selfish.

@Celestia26 no I won't come back and say that. I know you're right about freedom of speech etc... I was just trying to explain to a poster who stated that we were trying to make out talking about parental experiences should be a taboo subject.

We aren't, or I'm not at least, I think it's just with the content of the thread things you may say in other situations take on a different meaning which is why people are taking offence or calling out things which otherwise would be fine to say iyswim!

Peanutss I totally understand. I'm sorry if you experienced that particularly on this thread.

I have tried to be empathetic and sympathic as much as I can with the issue of childlessness given that it's not something I have experienced.

@Celestia26 thank you.

I hope you don't think I was trying to be argumentative, I wasn't. It's hard to put that across with written text!

Celestis you said people were trying to stop the use of the word family.

No one was doing that. We were objecting to it at times bring used in ways that are inappropriate and exclusive.

You seem, as someone who has children, to he more interested in expressing your views than listening to what childless people find hurtful and insensitive. But that is the purpose of this thread. I thought it would be helpful for childless people to have the opportunity to talk about the unintended hurts we receive over and over again, and for those who do this without realising it to learn what it is and isn't appropriate to say if you don't want to cause hurt and pain.

It seemed like a simple idea.

Peanutss not at all. I think you've been very clear and precise and fair.

@IcedPurple

FYI, statistically, single women are happier than married women, though the reverse is true for men. Maybe we should come up with a suitably derogatory word for unwived men?

Although I agree that calling someone a horrid spinster is rude, I seriously doubt that is even remotely true, that single women are generally happier than married women.

The fact that there are constantly multiple millions of women on dating sites, blows THAT comment out of the water. In addition to there being many women 'looking for love,' I know a number of single women who struggle way more financially, than women who are in a couple, and are significantly more stressed, because of lack of money, and lack of support from a partner.

I am not saying married women are better or more superior than singles, but do bog off with the sweeping generalisation that single women are happier than married women - because it's nonsense.

As for the 'mums are more tired than people without children' comment, as has been said, no-one has a monopoly on tiredness. Many people have busy, hectic jobs, and hectic lives, and older parents to look after etc, and just because you have kids, that doesn't automatically make you more stressed or tired.

However, IMO, you are far more likely to be more knackered and frazzled if you have a job (and also have kids,) than you are if you have a job and no kids. Especially as the women with children, will also have the stresses of work and looking after the home and older family members too. (In addition to looking after/raising their children.)

As for mums vs childfree, I agree with a few other posters on here, that there is good and bad on both sides.

I'd differentiate between a 'family day' and a 'community day' exactly as sleepingstandingup describes. The appropriateness of the name really depends on the crowd the organisers want to attract. I love craft fairs and similar, so my custom would be lost if such an event was called a 'family day' because I'd assume inflatable castles and face-painting.

Clothrabbit I'm sorry, I thought I had been sympathetic and respectful.

When you post on AIBU you do open yourself more to debate than other areas of Mumsnet. People giving their views and opinions in a polite and inoffensive way is allowed. If it's simply that I have children that is the issue, then I can't help that.

I have listened and expressed my views in what I thought or hoped was a respectful way. I wasn't rude, nor did I say any of the things you have stated are hurtful or insensitive.

The family comment was in response to your statement. I wasn't rude about it. I feel that the word should be used without worrying offense will be caused. In the same way that the words single, married, man, woman, child is used in general life.

It's all a very complicated dance of polite, kind, awareness, honesty, emotion. It can be tricky to manoeuvre for the most well meaning of people. I'm someone who generally in all areas of life can become quite hurt or upset by things people say.

That's because I look deeply at the implications of every comment and perhaps a lot of people don't?

I work with a woman who did try to conceive in her late 30's once she met her DH and I am really very aware of what I say. However, I still find that she is already on the defensive mode no matter what I say about my DD - I don't get upset by it as I think maybe she has assumed implications from what I said.

Oh you look tired sassenach?
Ye been up all night with DD teething I'm beyond shattered.
Pfffft, tut, eye roll, at least ur in your own house!! Last week I had to go to my elderly mother in the night.

I absolutely was not would not imply by saying I'm tired that she never is. But it's a sore subject for her and her safety response is to fire back as if I have implied she's never tired.

Anyway, I can see all sides of argument in this thread as peanuts said it was a thread online with a specific title and not a chat between two friends/acquaintances.

Hopefully people can all just be a bit more understanding that human emotions are complex and not so black and white. I can say - I have good and kind intentions and if anything I have ever said has been painful for you, I'm really sorry. I don't need to question that persons emotion.

However, IMO, you are far more likely to be more knackered and frazzled if you have a job (and also have kids,) than you are if you have a job and no kids. Especially as the women with children, will also have the stresses of work and looking after the home and older family members too. (In addition to looking after/raising their children.)

Have you even read the thread?!

Would any of you adopt, from birth?
Would that be an option?

Perhaps childless by choice pp's need to keep away from smug parents.

Being childfree by choice can sometimes attract slightly different criticism if you admit you have never tried to conceive; people think it's odd or unwomanly that you don't have a maternal urge.

I have also been told I am selfish as I'm not contributing to future generations and am relying on other people's children to fund the economy once I'm too old to work (obviously nonsense as I'm - happily - contributing to the education of those children through my taxes now).

Finally, from a cousin of my husband - selfish as I am denying my MIL a grandchild (DH is an only child). My lovely, kind MIL has never said such a thing but this random cousin who has four children herself took it upon herself to say this to me (not to DH, you note) at FIL's funeral of all places .

Staying away from 'smug parents' isn't possible unless you become a recluse and give up work!

How do people feel about saying smug parents are smug people in general? I'd hazard a guess. The cousin at the funeral is not a nice person anyway and her being a mother just gives another avenue for her to be a loud mouth moron?

Hi I've not read all the posts but got the general feeling . I used to get 'when you have children...' Quite a lot. I can't have them . That really hurt. And you do tend to say 'well it's not something I want to do' you don't share your personal life with each person who says something crass. Also ( sorry people with children I know this is a bit sweeping but it has happened ) any advice I offered ( when asked) about children would be swept aside because I couldn't possibly know the answer as I dont have them.

Yes, absolutely Sassenach85 - I'm sorry if it sounded as though I meant all parents are smug; I was quoting a pp. I know lots of parents who are not at all smug and who wouldn't dream of criticising other people's life-choices. Smug people come in both parent and non-parent varieties.

@Sassenach85 yep. I reckon smug people just become smug people who happen to have children.

They were probably insufferable to begin with!

Herehere am I understanding you correctly? Are you asking why we don’t all adopt?

Have you read any of this thread?

@LostInShoebiz I'm really hoping they meant it as a suggestion of something that's said to a childless person that's hurtful.

LostInShoebiz I asked would any of you consider adopting.

Some comments are insensitive...but I hate having to watch what I'd say naturally because a relative if mine cannot have kids.

Like if I say teenagers can be challenging...She says she wishes she had that problem. Or when I say (in the company of others not just her) I might be too old to help my kids when I become a grandparent (I'm nearly 50), She goes quiet.

I would never say things like you've never know love or you look young because you don't have kids.... those comments are uncalled for.

Herehere I think you’d do well to move away from this thread very swiftly.

Herehere66 I can't even get mad at that. Well done for contributing the most idiotic comment so far. Have a medal.

if you can't have a baby then adopting would be nice, no?
It was a nice thought and it would be a nice thing to do for the child/baby and the adoptive mother.

I dont see why you would be offended by that

thisneverendingsummer

You are absolutely right that my life can not be as frazzled as a woman with a job and children simply because I chose not to have children.

Let’s ignore the fact that I am 48 and have arthritis so quite often feeling completely knackered, I have a full time job which can sometimes be long hours due to the fact it’s project work. I also have a disabled husband who I am the full time carer for so before I leave for work in the morning I have to make sure he has everything he needs for the day and when I come home I need to clear up from his day before getting on with all the household stuff like cooking and clearing away, getting the washing done and dried and ironed. Making sure I’ve got the shopping in (No online shopping and delivery where I live so I have to pop to the shops every other day). I’m the one that has to maintain the cars and all the admin that goes with those, I’m the one who makes sure the house is always clean and tidy. I’m the one who looks after his medical needs and gets him to and from appointments. Most of my free time at weekends is running him around and making sure he still has something of a social life and can get out and about.

And then let’s not forget my elderly mum who just lives around the corner and I like to keep in touch with and make sure she’s ok.

I long for a full nights sleep and some peace and quiet and time to myself.

But hey, that’s nowhere near as bad as it would be for a woman who has a job and children. According to you, my life is a fucking doddle compared to them.

@Herehere66 - it is offensive. So don't say it. EVER.