Macron's behaviour is despicable

[Snowymountainsalways]

I am a moderate remainer, I say that because I do feel we should respect the vote. I am not a remainer who think a second ref will help. A second ref won't help regardless of the outcome, because the other side will simply demand another one, and another and so it would go on indefinitely and it is utterly futile and pointless.

I had come to the conclusion that a good deal would be the best outcome in the end. However I am just appalled at the behaviour and language coming out of the EU, and particularly Macron.

I am now even thinking what is the point? What is the point in continuing with any 'deal'? They are clearly not remotely interested.

May (for all her faults, and she has many) should gather her dignity and call it a day. We were there in good faith, the chequers plan is not perfect but it was a starting point. I had hoped it would work. It would have offered a solution of sorts.

I have cancelled our holiday next year to France. I don't want to go anywhere so openly hostile, despite the fact we have been holidaying there for my entire living life. I can't support Macron's comments that were both needlessly humiliating and rude to our prime minister.

Thoughts?

@DontBoreMe

I know only one person in RL who votedLeave and noe she is regretting it.

I am genuinely flabbergasted that anyone still thinks Brexit is a good thing.
I really would like to hear your point of view, re: Brexit given the shambles it has turned into.

People don't like Macron for speaking the truth? Well, no surprises there.

David Davis, Michael Gove and Liam Fox have all made clear that we are going to break the terms of any agreement we make with the EU. Frankly, Macron was being tactful in confining the "Liars" statement only to Brexit campaigners.

The only realistic option I see now is that May accepts this is going to be a hard Brexit, and throws every possible resource and government body and man hour into preparing for and managing the effects of this instead of wasting her time and everyone elses

I totally agree - the only difference being that I always expected a hard brexit to be the likely outcome

All politicians lie and no doubt some things could have been done differently, but faced with losing a net contributor and the idea of separation perhaps becoming contagious, did anyone seriously think that ANY proposal would have been acceptable to the EU leaders?

Some of us are old enough to remember being sold the whole concept as just a "trading bloc" ... and some of wish that, on the whole, it had stayed that way

Who in Britain, has actually stood up to May and said “ you’re a fucking idiot”. No one wants Brexit.

May doesn't want Brexit, she knows it's bloody daft and will fuck Britain over. She's trying to push it through and get a deal because she feels a duty to stay true to the vote and make it the least damaging outcome possible.

However a lot of other people do want Brexit. They're deluded and ill-informed IMO, but they do. May is trying to do what's best for the country given that they voted for a terrible idea and she got the poisoned chalice of actually trying to make it work. I think she needs to give up on it now and speak her mind.

And what happens to NI and the border in a hard brexit?

It has to be noted yesterday didn't go down well with our neighbours in the EU the ones on the ground at least, that is one comforting thought.

They know we can't reverse what has happened, the EU would have come out of this looking stronger if they had held out the hand of friendship (knowing so many of us support them and want to stay) and not humiliated our PM in such a way.

I would like to hear from labour. What is their view on this?

All the talk of bullying is reminding my of my XH. I put down boundaries to protect myself and our child and I'm called an unreasonable bully for no longer being willing to cater to his whims. The EU's only responsibility is to countries in the EU. This Brexit madness will hurt us, Ireland especially, so it's the responsibility of our leaders to protect us as much as possible. To make this work for us as well as possible. We aren't going to be making concessions to the country that is hurting us. It's your choice to leave, you will bear the brunt of the fall out. But instead of accepting the very fucking obvious fact that the best interests of EU countries are what the EU is going to be looking out for, the UK has blustered and tantrumed and refused to accept reality. All of the bullying has been coming from the UK and aimed at Ireland. A country that the UK has long being used to being able to dictate to. Now Ireland is the much, much stronger power (because of the EU) and the resulting response from many in the UK government has been absolutely fucking disgusting. How fucking dare you claim to be being bullied because the EU is preventing you from bullying Ireland.

It clearly is true. When you have been accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

Establishment remainers want the economy to go down the pan so the EU can complete their takeover of the UK and make the country full of powerless automata who will do whatever they are told.

Don't forget the pile of money the EU will get every year from forcing us to stay in their 'union'. It's almost as if this was planned

@Snowymountainsalways

So you're appalled. Oh well. Then despite being a remainer, you trot out the usual Brexiter slogans about 'they need us more than we need them' and 'they're bullies'.

Calling any country 'liars' regardless of where you sit on the brexit spectrum and embarrassing the UK prime minster is unprecedented in a summit that was supposed to be bringing the two sides together

A Prime Minister continuing to put forward a plan that has already been rejected by members of her own party and by the EU's chief negotiator, who then uses an invitation to speak as an opportunity to criticise Barnier and lay down an ultimatum; who then claims that she won't be able to agree a solution to the Irish border question (despite agreeing to one back in December) - and you're upset that Macron decided to put a stop to the charade. You didn't find May's speech disrespectful to the EU (by demanding a deal that had already been rejected) or disrespectful to Barnier (by criticising him and attempting to go over his head)?

Macron didn't call the UK liars. He called the Brexit cheerleaders liars - the ones who claimed that the UK could leave the EU and yet somehow retain all of the benefits of membership (in Johnson's own words 'have our cake and eat it'), who claimed that this would be the easiest deal in history, that the EU would be banging on the door begging for a deal, along with a queue of countries who as yet have failed to materialise. The charlatans who claimed that there would be no downsides to Brexit, that we'd be rolling in money (trillions according to Rees-Mogg, albeit in 50 years time if we survive that long) and that the NHS would be getting £350m a week.

BTW, Salzburg was not a summit about Brexit. The EU had many other issues to discuss and May wasn't invited to those meetings. There was no formal discussion with May about Brexit, just informal chats with Tusk and Varadkar. It was a chance for May to put forward her latest thoughts. They listened in bemusement and sat in stoney silence once she'd finished.

The deal May took is the only deal available

Not true. There are other options (Canada +, Norway +) which have their own issues. There is also the option of withdrawing the Art 50 notice and remaining, or at least asking for an extension of another 12 months. As a self-confessed remainer, you'd no doubt welcome this?

I thought it was quite restrained given the EU have had to listen to 40 years of whinging as well as the xenophobic twaddle in the gutter press.

MargoLovebutter who knows what will happen to a border? I guess that will be for the EU to sort out, as there is no one in the UK that would ever put a border between NI and RoI. I hope the EU are giving it some thought.

Corbyn is not being Canny
He is showing that he is pro Brexit and has no intellectual capacity to adapt to changing situations.

It was leavers complaining about immigration. How do you monitor people coming into Britain if there is no border between ni and RoI?

SheGotBette

I’m going to be brave here and say I still support Brexit. I know I’ll be lambasted but I may as well be honest. It was a reluctant decision for me, but I disagree with the direction of the EU which is away from just a trading block and towards a super-state. I was disturbed at the way Cameron was treated when he attempted to renegotiate the UK’s relationship with the EU and that treatment reminds me of what May just experienced. I can’t get behind an organisation that does not listen to our voice. The EU leadership has its own unique agenda. It has been very clear that it doesn’t plan to change.

I voted Brexit while being concerned about the financial consequences- thankfully Osborne and the IMF’s projections about the immediate post-vote cliff edge did not come to fruition, but I’m sure the worst is yet to come.

I’m not a racist or an idiot. I am disgusted that our political leaders have failed to prepare for Brexit and so little has been done years later.

I probably would still vote to leave today.

May doesn't want Brexit, she knows it's bloody daft and will fuck Britain over

This is what's so bloody awful. The PM has a mandate to destroy the country's economy and she's doggedly trying to DELIVER it.

It's astonishing.

@Walkingdeadfangirl the difference between the original quote and your version being that the EU is a group of countries made up of many countries and millions of people - including those in the UK- who benefit. The British establishment is a group of self interested white men who all came from the same public school.

If you were to tell your husband: I am thinking of leaving you. I want a special relationship though. Still come and cook every night, I like your cooking. Oh, you want me to wash up after? Nope. No deal.
I want the freedom to do what I want, but I want you to be available for me all the time in case I need you.

Now. Imagine your one small country against 27. You want to leave them. But you like their money, so please buy my stuff that I want to sell. I just don't like that you want to include people in freedom of movement of trade. No deal.

In both scenarios, expect to be told to fuck off.

it should be one of equals,

Of course it's not a partnership of equals!! That was for when we were members. Thinking that as an outside country the UK would have equal negotiating power with an entity massively larger than us was always a nonsense.

Macron was right. The Brexiteers lied that the UK would be economically better off out of the EU. Meanwhile they have moved their company bases away from the UK so that they don't lose out financially. Why is anyone still supporting JRM?

Havanananana at no point did I say we need them more than they need us. But I can not deny it did not look very good, even to me. I am now permanently based in the UK (I lived in europe for over half of my life) and I don't think what played out yesterday was a reflection of the true feeling on the ground, and I thought it was a needless unpleasant intervention by Macron that reflected badly on him particularly although Juncker didn't cover himself in glory.

I am not an utlra remainer, I made this very clear at the beginning. I don't think we should ignore the vote and continue to have endless referendums. I believe/believed there is/was a middle way. It may not satisfy all the brexiteers but there was a deal to be done. I don't think I am in the minority.

We need a considered solution, and extension at least of article 50 but I fear that our hopes will soon be dashed in both counts.

I guess that will be for the EU to sort out, as there is no one in the UK that would ever put a border between NI and RoI.

Do you even watch the news? The UK has repeatedly tried to threaten Ireland with just this in the last year, trying to force Ireland out of the EU too. (You should watch Irish news, the journalists genuinely have a really hard time concealing their mirth whenever this happens. There is so much looking down at the desk to hide their smiles and avoid eye contact between the anchor and correspondent lest they burst out laughing.) It's so stupid it is sort of hilarious. Especially the implied threat of a return to violence in an region containing nearly 2 million potential EU citizens.

What's more disgusting is the way the UK, especially England, and its dominant white male upper and wanna-be upper class (like Rees-Mogg) is still treating Ireland. We have a serious, internationally recognised treaty to which the Republic of Ireland is also a party, which embodies the peacemaking process and on which the northern Irish depend for their safety and security, and the Tories want to scrap it because they still think the Irish not worthy of their consideration.

The UK government has known for more than two years that anything which threatens that treaty is not acceptable and the EU27, to their enormous credit, have spoken with a single voice on several occasions in support of the treaty and the security of a member country. Theresa May just isn't listening.

Instead of the Daily Mail, The Times, Telegraph, and the other guttter newspapers, try reading some of the major European newspapers for a more accurate view of what's currently going on in Salzburg. The gap in funding caused by the UK will be made up by Germany at the next funding round, as already reported in Die Welt, but you wouldn't know it if you only read the UK press or listen to the BBC.

So Macron was a little tasteless... pfft! It's better than taking May by the shoulders and shaking her while yelling 'FFS take notice of what you've been told repeatedly for the last two years' in her face, which is what I feel like doing.

But she's married to a wealthy hedge fund company manager, it doesn't matter to her whether this country goes bankrupt. Actually, save for the drop in the value of my house, it doesn't matter to me either, and if I ignore the impact on my friends here. Ultimately I can just take my Italian passport and go.

Corbyn does support brexit, and his silence speaks volumes.

**DRE56322

For me, it’s more like- I’m leaving my husband because I see no future in the relationship. But let’s come to an agreement about our shared assets, our shared business interests and also a way to cooperate in the future because it’s good for our families (plus we’re neighbours). Oh- it all has to be on your terms and you reject my multiple attempts at compromise, even though agreeing a relationship is best for everyone? So you would rather everyone suffer more because you couldn’t bend? You want to take a hard line so that no one ever dares to leave you again?

Then, I would think, this is horrible and will hurt a lot, but I did the right thing to leave.

May has backed herself into a corner trying to appease everyone and it has blown up in her face, as it was always going to. It shouldn't come as a surprise that the EU considers Chequers unworkable, they've said so on numerous occasions before yesterday. The UK has sneakily tried to go behind the backs of the EU and Michel Barnier (who the Member States are fully supporting as chief negotiator) by trying to negotiate with individual States, and the EU27 are making it clear that they're singing from the same hymn sheet. May cannot keep fudging her way around the key issues, the EU is holding it's ground and rightly so.

I don't understand why anyone thinks the EU would work against it's own best interests to appease the UK. This is a mess entirely of the UK's making. The EU has actually been quite patient and conciliatory up to now but at some point this has to come to a head. Britain needs to figure out what the hell it wants.