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AIBU?

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Original poster

Macron's behaviour is despicable

999 replies

Snowymountainsalways · 21/09/2018 09:50

I am a moderate remainer, I say that because I do feel we should respect the vote. I am not a remainer who think a second ref will help. A second ref won't help regardless of the outcome, because the other side will simply demand another one, and another and so it would go on indefinitely and it is utterly futile and pointless.

I had come to the conclusion that a good deal would be the best outcome in the end. However I am just appalled at the behaviour and language coming out of the EU, and particularly Macron.

I am now even thinking what is the point? What is the point in continuing with any 'deal'? They are clearly not remotely interested.

May (for all her faults, and she has many) should gather her dignity and call it a day. We were there in good faith, the chequers plan is not perfect but it was a starting point. I had hoped it would work. It would have offered a solution of sorts.

I have cancelled our holiday next year to France. I don't want to go anywhere so openly hostile, despite the fact we have been holidaying there for my entire living life. I can't support Macron's comments that were both needlessly humiliating and rude to our prime minister.

Thoughts?

OP posts:
pumkinspicetime · 22/09/2018 00:22

They voted for closer integration with Europe rather than continuing with isolationist policies however.

Jamiefraserskilt · 22/09/2018 03:28

Macron and Merkel have to be seen to act like this as there are many of their own citizens watching closely, considering the same. If it all went well, they would be on shaky ground.
Think what would have happened if they had undergone the massively overdue major reforms before all this kicked off?

Peregrina · 22/09/2018 07:13

I feel no sympathy for May being 'bullied, humiliated', or whatever. She was more than happy, indeed revelled in the idea of being a 'Bloody difficult woman' in the negotiations; there was no attempt whatever either to a) consider the views of half of her own country's citizens, or b) adopt a conciliatory approach with the EU. Then Davis was more than happy to tell us all how he would be perfectly happy to renege on an agreement about Ireland. This summer we had May sending her Cabinet round to other EU heads to try and pick them off one by one. The rEU hasn't bought it, and have stuck together, and Macron, after May's clumsy blundering and hectoring has told a few home truths. And Boo hoo, I am being bullied. No, you are exactly like a bully yourself when people stand up to them.

This business of 'getting behind Brexit'. OK we need a trade deal with the US. From what we have seen at present, the US wants a nice tidy chunk of our NHS. Does a trade deal with the US mean that we say goodbye to the NHS? Is that the sort of 'getting behind' we should be supporting? Count me out, if so. I can see that the NHS and Social Care desperately need reform but selling it off to US corporations and beggaring the poor of this country with medical bills doesn't have to be the way.

I can't help think how some things in history are almost caused by accident. From what I gather May told Varadkar that she hadn't any plans about Ireland, despite signed agreements from 9 months ago. She then adopted a strident tone in Salzburg - it didn't work with her UK electorate back in 2017 and needless to say, it didn't work with the heads of the EU. Macron snapped and told some home truths - not about her, but the things she didn't have the guts to say to Johnson, Davis, Fox, etc. And it's whine, whine poor me. (But never mind Treeza the right wing tabloids are all behind you.)

So we crash out without a deal, and it could all have been avoided. So often, things in history start by accidents like this.

madeyemoodysmum · 22/09/2018 07:26

If you look at bbc have your say polls
People support brexit in the majority still and since yesterday this majority is larger still. Sorry to say it but mumsnet in a niche poll.

LARLARLAND · 22/09/2018 07:28

The rise of the far right in Germany is terrifying. Apparently ordinary Germans are being told to get up off their sofas and stand up to the far right threat. Let’s hope they do, this time.

Juells · 22/09/2018 07:31

since yesterday this majority is larger still.

Because she's done her "how dare they insult us like this" speech. There are no depths to which politicians won't sink when they've fucked up, and want the electorate to think it's someone else's fault. A big boy did it and ran away. In this case, the big boy is the EU, allegedly.

bellinisurge · 22/09/2018 07:35

May did her schpiel for the conference.
Unlike some idiots, I think a shit deal is better than no deal - my preferred option lost in the referendum.
At least a shit deal buys us some time and can be cobbled together into something slightly less shit during a transition.
A no deal means food shortages within weeks. If you want that for your kids then I hope you suffer the consequences.

bellinisurge · 22/09/2018 07:37

The BBC have your say polls are a self selecting exercise. If you think they represent reality any more than what you see as an MN enclave of whinge, you are naive.

Original poster
Snowymountainsalways · 22/09/2018 07:42

I have read and worked my way through the entire summit, and the tweets and reflected on the Salzburg summit over night.

I voted remain, I made no secret of my wish to stay in the EU indefinitely.

However I have had reason to question the motives of the EU, the ambush that happened on Friday whether pre planned or last minute was entirely unacceptable. The UK attended in good faith, and whether the chequers proposal was dead in the water or not, the very LEAST the EU could and should have done was remained respectful of the British PM.

The EU commission appears rotten to the core incapable of real change of any description, not to confuse the commission with European countries and Europe. I am still the greatest fan of 'Europe' and I always will be, but I can no longer support the commission headed by Juncker after Friday, and Macron and Tusk should both apologise to May.

OP posts:
Juells · 22/09/2018 07:44

My memory is fuzzy on details, but was the two-year-transition deal part of the package that included agreement on the Irish border? The deal that Davis immediately announced he wouldn't be honouring?

No wonder the EU is holding May's feet to the fire. Perfidious Albion...

PostNotInHaste · 22/09/2018 07:47

I think the EU have been remarkably respectful given May’s apparent inability to actually listen to what is being said that she has suffering from for some time now (or gives a convincing appearance of doing which is assumablynwhatbshe is trying to do) but different strokes for different folks etc.

Peregrina · 22/09/2018 07:47

I don't think it was an ambush. May took her hectoring bossy tone to the meeting, didn't even have the grace to prepare a new speech for them, but rehashed one they had already read in the German press. Lied about trying to respect them and meet them half way. OK it was Davis who said he wasn't going to take any notice of the NI agreement made back in December, but she didn't sack him on the spot. She didn't sack Johnson either, so she put her name to their actions.

Macron snapped - it could have been one of the others - the Dutch are plain speakers.

Juells · 22/09/2018 07:48

and Macron and Tusk should both apologise to May.

Oh get over yourself.

Remainer my arse.

Original poster
Snowymountainsalways · 22/09/2018 07:49

The Irish border should be decided by the UK and Ireland.

The EU have no reason to get involved in this process. Ireland is Ireland it does not 'belong' to the EU. Ireland the last time I checked was not part of a super state unable to think independently but a country in its own right. A quiet agreement could and should be made between two countries in the same way that other agreements are made all over the world.

OP posts:
GhostofFrankGrimes · 22/09/2018 07:52

Ireland is a member of the EU and are working together to preserve the integrity of the GFA. It’s called cooperation.

PerkingFaintly · 22/09/2018 07:52

Hi Snowymountainsalways, I asked above but maybe you missed it.

You say above that your friends voted leave but you disagree with them.

Could you please tell us what you think your leave-voting friends are wrong about?

HPFA · 22/09/2018 07:54

Macron and Tusk should both apologise to May.

What utter nonense. Tusk's joke fell a little flat but for a nation that expected European leaders to deal with Boris Johnson to have a hissy fit over it is ridiculous. Here's the official text of what Macron said issued from the French Embassy. There's no possible way to interpret this as insulting to May.

twitter.com/FranceintheUK/status/1043157181485539328https

Peregrina · 22/09/2018 07:57

The GFA is also an international treaty, a fact which some of you appear to have missed.

HPFA · 22/09/2018 07:58

*The Irish border should be decided by the UK and Ireland.

The EU have no reason to get involved in this process. Ireland is Ireland it does not 'belong' to the EU.*

Completely incorrect. The border between NI and Ireland will, after Brexit, be an external border between a third country and the EU Single Market. If, for example, UK decides to allow in chlorinated chicken the EU needs to stop this crossing over the Irish border.

You are clearly an intelligent person - there is no way you can genuinely not understand this.

twofingerstoEverything · 22/09/2018 07:59

A big boy did it and ran away. In this case, the big boy is the EU, allegedly.
And the MSM continues to groom the British public with headlines like this.
And - as this thread proves - this will be lapped up the type of people who consider a Frenchman telling the truth about a very specific group of people to be an insult to the entire Great British public.

Macron's behaviour is despicable
whosafraidofabigduckfart · 22/09/2018 08:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mistigri · 22/09/2018 08:07

Macron and Tusk should both apologise to May.

Apologise for what though?

Tusk's photos were undiplomatic, but dwarfed by the lack of diplomacy of a government that thinks it is ok to walk back on an agreement on the Irish backstop that they signed last December.

Macron simply stated some facts. The people who ran the leave campaign said it would be easy; they ran away when it came to implementing brexit. They told lies about how easy the process would be.

I am genuinely puzzled about what people think is wrong with a politician politely stating facts. Do you prefer politicians who lie?

Hazardswan · 22/09/2018 08:13

Just for that speech of his alone as I don't agree with his politics Macron made me proud. We were lied to and it's taken a frenchman to tell us the truth.

There was no ambush btw, May just didnt want to listen until she had to, fuck she's still banging on about checkers even now.

And Tusk was funny on insta, I think you might be middle aged and MC it was a show of very gentle ribbing modern humour.

PerkingFaintly · 22/09/2018 08:13

LARLARLAND, you said The rise of the far right in Germany is terrifying.

This is being explicitly egged on and supported by Nigel Farage's mate and advisor, Steve Bannon.

LARLARLAND · 22/09/2018 08:20

Yes Perking although AfD have rebuffed him. The good thing about the far right is that they spend a lot of time arguing amongst themselves. Thank god they do because the rest of us just seem to let them crack on with being fascists.