Macron's behaviour is despicable

[Snowymountainsalways]

I am a moderate remainer, I say that because I do feel we should respect the vote. I am not a remainer who think a second ref will help. A second ref won't help regardless of the outcome, because the other side will simply demand another one, and another and so it would go on indefinitely and it is utterly futile and pointless.

I had come to the conclusion that a good deal would be the best outcome in the end. However I am just appalled at the behaviour and language coming out of the EU, and particularly Macron.

I am now even thinking what is the point? What is the point in continuing with any 'deal'? They are clearly not remotely interested.

May (for all her faults, and she has many) should gather her dignity and call it a day. We were there in good faith, the chequers plan is not perfect but it was a starting point. I had hoped it would work. It would have offered a solution of sorts.

I have cancelled our holiday next year to France. I don't want to go anywhere so openly hostile, despite the fact we have been holidaying there for my entire living life. I can't support Macron's comments that were both needlessly humiliating and rude to our prime minister.

Thoughts?

Despite me voting and supporting remain I am only a true remainer if I am demanding a second ref and putting the UK down?

Seriously.

Yes, it may be childish, but I am so utterly fed up of this attitude, the UK has overwhelmingly benefitted from EU membership, and enjoyed a position of privilege on many levels (so please, let's stop the comparisons with Greece, please!), now a bunch of irresponsible politicians have lied (yes, they have, deal with it, Macron is right!) to create this disaster entirely for their own personal benefit or internal party cleavages, in the meantime they have fed an ugly, xenophobic discourse, and made people who have been living here for years feel utterly unwelcome.

The Eu is not perfect, of course not, what political institution is? The adult thing to do would have been to work within the EU to improve on the Union.

This shambles of a negotiation is costing everybody huge amounts of time and money, but hey, somehow it is all the EU's fault!

It's a pattern, incompetent politicians here make a dog's breakfast of things and then blame the EU to deflect from their incapacity, and you are falling for it!

Poor May, not her fault, is that baddy Macron really! I don't think it's me being childish! The EU owes us nothing! that's what we wanted, to be out of the club, well, we are out, they owe us NOTHING! in fact, it is their duty to get the best possible deal for their own citizens, what else should they do? we started it, we wanted this, now we have it, enjoy!

Hence my title in the thread. Macron has just led us all to a hard brexit
The 'Look what you made me do' defence.

KnickKnack, I agree. I’ll always have an image of Boris Johnson the morning after. Pale faced and mortified, running from his home to his waiting car, through the press throng. You could smell his shock and fear; he looked like he’d been caught stealing from the school tuck shop. Likewise Gove. That little weasel could barely string a sentence together and had lost the ability to make eye contact.

Macron has just led us all to a hard brexit

Utter tosh.

Who in Britain, has actually stood up to May and said “ you’re a fucking idiot”. No one wants Brexit.
It has taken Macron to spell it out to May and she doesn’t like it.

Even the Dutch Prime Minister has said a 2nd referendum would be the best solution.

Arrogant stupid woman.

Where does it lead?

To a hard brexit. Is that you want?

I think a second referendum would have a massively different result as all but the most swivel-eyed gammon can see they have been sold a lie.

Actually polls show a roughly 50/50 split.

Personally I'd love a second referendum in the vain hope it'd shut the remainers up one way or the other. But I think we'd just end up with calls for a "Third Time Lucky" referendum....

As for France - Fuck 'Em.

Again, no fan of Macron. But it's in the EU's interests for the UK to have as hard a time as possible in Brexit, and to be seen to suffer so other countries don't dare to try exiting too.

I'm not sure why you think he should feel any moral duty or responsibility towards protecting the UK and it's people here. It might be the basically human thing to do, but it's not in the best interests of the EU.

I wish Mrs May luck. She’s in her own, it seems, on every front.
I agree.

AuntyJackie I think that's a very generous post. However, TM is PM and she has a duty to do the right thing for the UK and to lead it somewhere better, not down a path of complete folly and economic ruin.

Being honest and frank about the state of Brexit and having the guts to say, 'People, this just isn't going to work,' would be a good starting point.

I know it's not going to happen.

He stated the truth: the politicians in the Leave Campaign lied and then ran away.

What is despicable about that?

It's the UK's choice unfortunately to leave. The UK can't then expect them to change their own rules because the UK which will no longer be part of the organisation_ wants them to

'putting the UK down' yes that's right love. We remainers don't love our country, that's why we don't support a nice which is going to be an economic and cultural bogflush.

I don't think you're just a hard leaver, I think you're being paid to post this shite on here.

No one wants Brexit.

Lots of us want Brexit - at the time of voting, more people wanted it than didn't.

HTH

Corbyn is being canny saying nothing. Why would he wade in unnecessarily? The liberal elite who claim to be socialists don't grasp that the EU is actually something that a fundamental socialist like Corbyn doesn't agree with. He took a while to finally come out and say he was a Remainer because his politics are actually quite different when it comes to our membership of the EU. It suits Corbyn for us to be out and for the Tories to be making a dog's dinner of the whole thing.

*Macron has just led us all to a hard brexit

Utter tosh*

There doesn't seem to be an obvious alternative to me. And please start with the second ref, because we know it never work, if we won the leave side would insist on another one.

BetteDavisEyes

Some economists have said small businesses may do better: smallbusiness.co.uk/the-brexit-opportunity-how-small-businesses-can-thrive-in-a-post-brexit-landscape-2543506/

This is also interesting: www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.uk.businessinsider.com/macquarie-research-best-performing-companies-after-brexit-2016-6

I’m not saying the country as a whole will be better off post Brexit, but rather than its impact will be uneven and that we can’t predict the outcome

Have a read of this OP. The Irish border question wont go away with threats of 'Hard Brexit'. Telling the truth may seem unkind, though in this instance Macron is justified.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/21/brexit-chequers-salzburg-irish-sea-customs-union

• don't

Snowymountainsalways, why cancel your holiday in France? Macron is hugely unpopular in France and his opinion in no way reflects that of the general population. It would be a little bit as if I decided to leave the UK because as a French expat I don't feel welcome anymore due to the referendum result! Other than that, I do agree that this whole negotiation thing is a huge mess :-(

Last night on the news I saw a clip of TM from the start of the process, and the difference between how she looked then and now is staggering :( I feel really sorry for her, working so hard re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Good job the country being divided is only an EU construct! Imagine what this thread would look like otherwise!

The Leave politicians - Farage, bloody Johnson, Gove - lied and lied and lied about what a post-Brexit future would look like. They should be held responsible. Macron was absolutely right. They should all be ashamed.

David Cameron held the referendum without explaining any of the possible costs or repercussions, then pissed off. Weak, cowardly leadership.

May is between a rock and a hard place. I bet none of the male politicians could have come up with a better plan - and if they couldn't why the hell haven't they all been working together like adults to do so, instead of slagging off May and flouncing off??

Of course the EU will make it as hard as possible for the UK to leave, to dissuade other countries from doing the same!

Lots of us want Brexit

I've yet to hear any Brexiteer explain, with a clear picture now emerging on the realities of Brexit, why on earth it can be anything resembling a good idea.

working so hard re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Exactly.

At this point she needs to change direction and focus on getting as many people through the inevitable as she possibly can.