Macron's behaviour is despicable

[Snowymountainsalways]

I am a moderate remainer, I say that because I do feel we should respect the vote. I am not a remainer who think a second ref will help. A second ref won't help regardless of the outcome, because the other side will simply demand another one, and another and so it would go on indefinitely and it is utterly futile and pointless.

I had come to the conclusion that a good deal would be the best outcome in the end. However I am just appalled at the behaviour and language coming out of the EU, and particularly Macron.

I am now even thinking what is the point? What is the point in continuing with any 'deal'? They are clearly not remotely interested.

May (for all her faults, and she has many) should gather her dignity and call it a day. We were there in good faith, the chequers plan is not perfect but it was a starting point. I had hoped it would work. It would have offered a solution of sorts.

I have cancelled our holiday next year to France. I don't want to go anywhere so openly hostile, despite the fact we have been holidaying there for my entire living life. I can't support Macron's comments that were both needlessly humiliating and rude to our prime minister.

Thoughts?

1tisILeClerc I think it is insulting to suggest May hasn't read the rules, of course she has, and she put together that deal with advice and indications from the EU. It looks like Mob Rule, and they carried her out at the first opportunity.

Maybe they would rather deal with Jacob/Boris after all? They have after all just pushed May over the cliff face.

Will somebody please tell me exactly what about Macron said is not true? About whom exactly do you think he is talking?

The UK is doing the ridiculous massive flounce out of the EU. This has been compounded now by the inability to make a workable plan. The onus is not on the EU to make the split easier or to make May look competent.
Macron was being honest, not bullying.

{ If they are not prepared to make any concessions then there is no point at all to the UK being there. }
If Mrs May hadn't stormed in 'demanding' concessions and that 'her' scrap of crap is the only way she might have got somewhere.
It really is that simple.
Until the UK comes up with a plan that does not harm the 4 pillars of the EU there is nothing to discuss, so yes, she should stay at home and do her homework.

Nobody loves me
Everybody hates me
I'm going into the garden to eat worms

I am just astounded by British arrogance, Brexit is nothing but a huge "fuck you, who needs you?" to the EU and they should be understanding and play nicely? this is utterly delusional! If I were the EU I'd be saying "you wanted out? out you go and have fun

That is a very childish view

And also an overgeneralisation, I am assuming you are either not British or commenting from overseas. 49% of those who voted, voted to remain, remember. And a lot of leave voters voted to leave, thinking we'd have a looser partnership, but they didn't vote for this unorganised sh*tstorm. This is the British government's responsibility, please stop lumping us all in together.

And most of us didn't vote for this government either.

It's interesting that it seems that the DUP is causing quite a lot of the trouble here. There is a book out at the moment called the Short History of Germany. Hitler was elected largely with the votes of East Prussia. What later became Western Germany did not majority vote for him. And what happened to East Prussia? Overrun by the Russians, severed from Germany, given partly to Poland and to Russia and the people expelled. So they suffered disproportionately.

I wonder if those who voted for the DUP will come to regret it.

I'm not sure why posters are taking comfort from how unpopular Macron is. He is part of the group we are negotiating with now - whether or not he will be replaced at the next French election is irrelevant.

There is an awful lot of hurt pride on this thread.

And Genevieve they don't have to paint the UK as a divided nation, we are a divided nation - lead by a divided party that can not agree amongst themselves where we should be headed. The EU aren't bullying us - they are watching us implode.

Waits for someone to tell me to stop talking the country down and get behind Brexit...

The EU are flexing their bully muscle to discourage other countries from trying to leave. In the run up to yesterday there was teasing talk of a starting point of a working deal. Yesterday was a deliberate ploy to humiliate, nothing subtle about it.
This ^^. The more they bully, the more glad I am we're leaving. Whatever happened to treating people with respect and professionalism? Tusk & his stupid Instagram post - it's designed to bully and belittle. Nothing remotely professional about him.
I think we should walk away without a deal right now. They'll not agree to anything on principle because they want to stop anyone else from going and we've conceded enough.

Does anyone here, in light of the behaviour of EU leaders towards Brexit and their long term vision of Europe, think the UK should now remain in the EU, that it could have a better long term future in the EU under its leadership and governance?

Genuine question and not intended to be goady.

I am no fan of the EU project or Macron but he is being absolutely factual that the referendum was a bloody stupid thing to have done by a bloody stupid man in charge of a bloody stupid government, who hadn't done any research or planning or even considered what they would do if the unexpected answer came back. And yes, that idiot and the others pushing for 'leave' ran away the day after the referendum. That's the cold truth. Brexit, if it was going to be carried out as a valid proposition, should never have looked like or been done like this, it's been an utter farce.

The government have done pitifully little preparation or planning or thinking to start getting the country prepared and able to withstand what they've got us into. Those plans should have been started on day one if the referendum came back 'leave', but again no one had thought that far ahead. May started the clock when no one even knew what 'leave' might look like or what the UK wanted and weren't in a position to start organising this.

Macron pretty much called it as it is. The hope of a 'deal' was based on the EU posturing and shouting and then at the 11th hour making a whole lot of concessions, exemptions and special licences to the UK. They won't. If they do, a lot of other countries will come out of the EU too. It's important to the EU project that the UK suffers as much as possible, and as visibly as possible, to prevent other members daring to try it.

The only realistic option I see now is that May accepts this is going to be a hard Brexit, and throws every possible resource and government body and man hour into preparing for and managing the effects of this instead of wasting her time and everyone elses.

The fucking mess that is Brexit is one we've brought on ourselves through ignorance and arrogance. The fact we are trying to pin the blame on everyone else just makes us look even more pathetic. I don't want a second referendum- some people (and peoples) need to learn the hard way.

The Leave bunch are a load of big fat liars tho.

I’m so embarrassed by my country. Give me Macron any day.

Bullying behaviour by a load of white privileged men.
Leo Varadker, who the Tories are trying and failing to bully and lie to, and whom the EU is protecting, is mixed race Indian. And a gay man who grew up in a country where homosexuality was actually illegal until his teens. Sort of fucks up your stupid, kneejerk bullshit, doesn't it.

The only realistic option I see now is that May accepts this is going to be a hard Brexit, and throws every possible resource and government body and man hour into preparing for and managing the effects of this instead of wasting her time and everyone elses

Hence my title in the thread. Macron has just led us all to a hard brexit.

Thanks buddy.

I’m not a Theresa May supporter. But seeing her in yesterday’s news has made me admire the woman, on a number of levels. When one considers those who have run away from all this... David Cameron, Osborne, Boris Johnson (just shit stirring from the sidelines since the referendum), David Davis (who did fuck all in his role as Brexit Minister and now has SO MUCH to say). May’s own party showing little support (just in fighting and treachery). And yet, there she is (very symbolic for me, her standing out from the crowd yesterday in her red jacket in a sea of blue) plugging away. I don’t believe for one moment she has any real faith in what she’s doing but then who else is doing anything constructive. Chequers Proposal is ridiculous (and an embarrassment as the ONLY thing we’ve come up with, in all this time) but at least there’s something on the table.

And don’t get me started on Labour and Jeremy Corbyn. He has fuckall to contribute in the run up to the Referendum in 2016, has offered nothing since and is conspicuously quiet now. Useless.

I wish Mrs May luck. She’s in her own, it seems, on every front.

The countries of the EU need the UK as much as we need them. We import more from them than we export to them. Quite simply, "banning" trade would harm them more. We have massive power and need to use it to our advantage.

It's not quite as simple as that:

UK-EU exports are a bigger part of the UK’s economy than the EU’s.
Although fewer of our exports are now going to other EU countries, these exports are still just as important to our economy.
The £274 billion exports of goods and services to other EU countries were worth 13.4% of the value of the British economy in 2017. It’s been at around 12-15% over the past decade.
Exports from the rest of the EU to the UK were worth about 3-4% of the size of the remaining EU’s economy in 2016. The exact number depends on whether you use the £394 billion figure from EU goods and services data, or £315 billion from UK data.
fullfact.org/europe/uk-eu-trade/

You can, of course, spin this in a number of ways, but the link is worth a read.

Anyone who thinks Brexit is A Good Idea is an idiot. In my humble (correct) opinion.

It's not Macron who has led us here though is ot?

He hasn't said anything that isn't true and you are cutting off your nose to spite your face by cancelling your trip to France. You also don't sound like a remainer.

This, in spades.

Waits for someone to tell me to stop talking the country down and get behind Brexit
Thing is, if all the MPs had got behind Brexit at the start when we'd voted for it then we'd be in a much stronger position now. And likewise if the Conservatives had united instead Boris & co wanting to grab a slice of attention & power for themselves. Theresa is shafted because of what parliament did, not because of what she's done. If you leave someone with no decent options then you get nothing decent from them. And you may not like her or what she represents, but at least she's doing her job because she believes in duty, unlike the rest of the rabble (on all sides), most of whom would knife their own granny if it got them a step higher.

**AuntyJackiesBrothersSistersBoy

Yes!!! Re your post above.

Some sectors, as I understand it, will thrive

Which sectors are projected to thrive as a result of this nationwide, catastrophic, economic disaster?

The more they bully, the more glad I am we're leaving

To what? With what? For what? The EU was NOT perfect - nothing is - but anyone who can STILL seriously say that Brexit is a good idea is completely deluded.

Where is Labour on this? What are they proposing? What we needed was cross party unification on the deal but all we have are factions.

I love this "bullying" bullshit.

"I want you to do x"
"No I dont want to do that"
"Wah! You're bullying me".