Macron's behaviour is despicable

[Snowymountainsalways]

I am a moderate remainer, I say that because I do feel we should respect the vote. I am not a remainer who think a second ref will help. A second ref won't help regardless of the outcome, because the other side will simply demand another one, and another and so it would go on indefinitely and it is utterly futile and pointless.

I had come to the conclusion that a good deal would be the best outcome in the end. However I am just appalled at the behaviour and language coming out of the EU, and particularly Macron.

I am now even thinking what is the point? What is the point in continuing with any 'deal'? They are clearly not remotely interested.

May (for all her faults, and she has many) should gather her dignity and call it a day. We were there in good faith, the chequers plan is not perfect but it was a starting point. I had hoped it would work. It would have offered a solution of sorts.

I have cancelled our holiday next year to France. I don't want to go anywhere so openly hostile, despite the fact we have been holidaying there for my entire living life. I can't support Macron's comments that were both needlessly humiliating and rude to our prime minister.

Thoughts?

EF Schumacher even. EL was his brother who knew fuck all about economics...

The eu will lose the uk contribution but is already making gains from the business that is moving its way. My car insurance (admiral) emailed me yesterday to tell them that they’re moving their hq to Madrid, my husband’s old company (unilever) have gone to the Netherlands and my company (and I) have moved to Spain.

To me the EU is behaving like a weak and desperate organisation. Their power is insecure. It isn’t strong enough to engage sensibly with the UK because it fears other countries following suit. It does want to punish us. It is behaving like a bunch of autocrats because it’s power is vulnerable. So, it overcompensates, thumps its fist and pats itself of the back. I do feel May has worked hard to engage with them and to find points of compromise (in spite of some aggressive and vocal hard Brexit campaigners in her own party) but they (the EU leaders) keep throwing back in her face. I am concerned about the consequences of leaving but don’t see a future with the EU given its behaviour.

mostdays Exactly, I agree, it looked precisely like a playground from where I was sitting too. My 10 year old has better diplomacy skills.

araiwa EXACTLY! And then the ex-husband gets to complain about the ex-wife being a difficult bitch because she objects to such ridiculousness

A hard brexit now looks inevitable.

You've implied that a hard Brexit is down to Macron et al. It isnt, its down to the fact that the Tories have no deal to offer.
You've also misrepresented what Macron said and why he said it.

A cynic might think you are whipping up outrage for some reason.

And Astoundedgoat has it right. The EU 27 were willing to allow TM to fudge along past her Tory conference (Salzburg was an informal summit remember; nothing signed) until formal summit in November, but then she made fatal error of telling Varadker in the morning that she couldn't meet October deadline on NI border issues as promised. That's when the shit hit the fan and everyone lost patience. How the right wing press can frame this as an "ambush" when any political commentator with half a brain has been saying for months that Chequers won't fly, is beyond me!

The UK broke up with the EU. It is now up to the UK to make a deal if they want something. You can't say fuck you and then claim that the other party should keep on giving deals.

@Snowymountainsalways can you tell us exactly what Macron said please?

Oops! I was implying that was what the EU was saying to the uk...not what I was saying. I am, unsurprisingly, a remainer!

UpstartCrow I think the EU could have done much more yesterday to salvage the situation, to have been more cordial and welcoming. I am very disappointed because I know what will happen next.

@UpstartCrow quite. Remainer my arse.

I don’t think you’ve understood how this works. WE are the ones that desperately need a deal to work, not the EU

Erm, no, they eu need this to work. They benefit massively from our membership and have everything to lose, particularly with a the trade deficit we currently run. You're just believing what you've been told. It's such an annoying debate. We'll leave the eu and we'll be fine.

The eu, however, won't be fine. There's no point in arguing this anyway, only time will prove what a huge scam the eu has been, so maybe we need to come back in a while and talk again.

I just fail to understand how anyone can think, that as net contributors, we're better off. Leading American economists have repeatedly said they can't see how we got entangled in the first place.

The £350m bus 'lie' thing ... how can anyone even begin to say this was a lie?? We haven't left yet, we're still being fleeced by the thieving bastards. We won't know what's available for the NHS until we actually leave!!

I's respectfully urge any worried remainer to watch Brexit - The movie. Yes, I realise most will say that this is propaganda as much as Brexiteers know the remain side peddle fake news, but it's still worth a watch even with that in mind. Even if you don't believe everything in it, it still might open your eyes to the scale of the eu fraud that's been forced upon us and possibly offer some reassurance that we'll be fine after Brexit, just like we have been for centuries and just like most other countries smaller than us, who aren't part of the eu, and who are managing perfectly well without Brussels poking their nose in.

The EU have made themselves look even worse, they do actually look like bullies now. I say that as a remainer, but as an honest decent person I don't think it is on.

🙄

The Dutch PM pointed out that they've made more preparation for a No Deal Brexit than the British have. So have the Irish. Both have commissioned massive 'Brexit-buster' ships and altered ports and taken on additional customs workers so as to be able to bypass British ports and roads. What has the British government arranged?

I don't think so. He didn't call everyone in the UK liars, he called the select few who spun the yarn that leaving would be easy liars. Seems like an accurate statement of fact to me.

Never thought I'd say this, but I feel sorry for Theresa May. This is the biggest poisoned chalice any PM has had to drink from in a long time. I'm amazed she doesn't say "fuck it, I'm done here".

@Snowymountainsalways sorry that's been totally misunderstood, I meant that as an example of what the eu are essentially doing to us now. Unfortunately I have to live here and deal with the the consequences like everyone else!

So now JRM has the golden opportunity to seize the moment. And why the hell wouldn't he?

relations with Europe will sink something more akin to war.

When you consider why the EU was originally set up, you might find your words prophetic. Don't forget how the French farmers would blockade and burn our live animal exports. We will be back to that and to the fishing wars in no time.

@Snowymountainsalways what did Macron say?

Macron isn't that popular in France. He is an EU puppet. I think people in the UK would be surprised by how much agreement there is among ordinary people across Europe on the problems with the EU.

It is no surprise that the EU's approach to the negotiation is 'my way or the highway'. You just need to look at the way people in Greece have been treated - their suffering is of no consequence in the quest for the greater good of consolidating the EU's journey towards ever closer union.

The EU has been very effective at labelling anyone who is unhappy with the direction of travel that the EU is taking as racist, xenophobic and uneducated; labelling the UK as a divided country and pretending there is unity within the EU. It is all spin.

I think the vast majority of people here, regardless of what they voted for in the referendum, want change. The difference was over whether they saw that change as possible within the EU or not. People across the EU want change too, but they haven't had the opportunity to vote on it. A more efficient EU that does not require vast and expensive infrastructure. A more flexible EU that allows more opt ins and opt outs so that member states can respect their different heritages and relationships with countries outside the EU. The so called 4 freedoms are not laws of physics and they are not sacrosanct. They are human constructs and should be changed when it becomes obvious that they are not working properly.

I am afraid that I am becoming more sceptical about the European project as time goes on. It is just another empire of sorts. It will last a while longer, but it will crumble eventually. Nothing lasts forever and the things that last the longest tend to be flexible and responsive to changed circumstances.

I also wonder exactly what he said. Who was he calling a liar and what was the lie?

MargoLovebutter I agree totally. May didn't really need Macron to put that final boot in. It was totally unnecessary.

Why she didn't say fuck it and walk out is beyond me, but she might still yet. That is assuming she even has the choice going forward.

Well put, Genevieva

I'll post the quote for a third time.

“Those who explain that we can easily live without Europe, that everything is going to be all right, and that it’s going to bring a lot of money home are liars. It’s even more true since they left the day after so as not to have to deal with it.”