Macron's behaviour is despicable

[Snowymountainsalways]

I am a moderate remainer, I say that because I do feel we should respect the vote. I am not a remainer who think a second ref will help. A second ref won't help regardless of the outcome, because the other side will simply demand another one, and another and so it would go on indefinitely and it is utterly futile and pointless.

I had come to the conclusion that a good deal would be the best outcome in the end. However I am just appalled at the behaviour and language coming out of the EU, and particularly Macron.

I am now even thinking what is the point? What is the point in continuing with any 'deal'? They are clearly not remotely interested.

May (for all her faults, and she has many) should gather her dignity and call it a day. We were there in good faith, the chequers plan is not perfect but it was a starting point. I had hoped it would work. It would have offered a solution of sorts.

I have cancelled our holiday next year to France. I don't want to go anywhere so openly hostile, despite the fact we have been holidaying there for my entire living life. I can't support Macron's comments that were both needlessly humiliating and rude to our prime minister.

Thoughts?

@snowymountainsalways

No!!

It's not a bloody war. It means we are facing the most momentous challenge this country has faced since... Maybe the war and for that reason the whole government... Like in the war has to stop wasting time on over turning this and get on with getting us out properly.

I can't believe quite frankly I have to spell that out and also that this hasn't happened yet!

To the ignoramus who said we are only a minor economy in the EU, I suggest you do your research! There is a reason they don't want to lose us and it isn't because they like us!

Go on then MadMum, give us some facts and figures.

They're not giving us a deal so we are scaremongered into another referendum.

Pfft. Look it up yourself.

It was frank field actually who said a long time ago that this situation lacked energy and sense of urgency and importance.

He said a cross party small brexit cabinet needs to be formed like Churchill War cabinet.

I wholeheartedly agree this is absolutely what needs to happen now.

Cross party (bearing in mind at least 40 % of Labour voters voted leave...) and get on with it

@FrankUnderwoodsWife

But why will workers rights be erroded? I am fascinated by speculative comments which are stated as favt!

Read Dominic Raab's book 'Britannia Unchained' - co-authored with right-wing Brexit MPs Pritti Patel and Lis Truss - where they advocate exactly this. Then weep. They are in government and can muster a majority for this if they wish - or use Henry VIII powers to force it through without even having a vote in parliament.

Then read any of Minford and Rees-Mogg's economic theories. The ones that Thatcher adopted when she focussed the UK economy on services and let heavy industry, engineering, steel, shipbuilding etc go to the wall (whereas Germany actively supported these sectors). The results of which have been the destruction of communities in the North and Midlands, Scotland and Wales - and to add insult to injury, have prompted the 'left-behind' and 'just-about-managing' to vote for more of the same. Minford and the hard Brexiters make no secret about Brexit resulting in the loss of what's left of UK manufacturing and agriculture and promote this as a good thing. They believe that the UK should become a low-tax, low-regulation country focussed on high tech innovation and services. Great for the million or so people that have the skills and education to benefit from this. Not so good for the other 59 million, who presumably can stay at home working out what to do with their turnips this week, their benefits and healthcare having being cut off and food prices being out of their reach.

People are ignoring the fact we currently abide by EU regulations and treaties. Why are people claiming these will be torn up instantly? They are legally binding and it would require a change in the law to revoke them.

Brexit means Brexit. Leave means Leave. You already know this - it's been explained ad nauseum in the press and on MN (assuming your not another one who has joined the discussion today). The 750+ Treaties are being torn up on 29th March, at 23.00. The parliamentary laws have already been passed. That's sort of the point of Brexit

Is that because you can't be arsed or because the facts and figures that would back up your argument don't exist?

MadMum is absolutely right. We give the EU £13.1 billion pa and receiver back £4.5 billion. That means the EU receiver over £8 billion from us every year. We are the third biggest contributor to the EU budget and our contribution represents about 13% of the EU budget.

MadMum101

Our problem is that we are known for dropping our drawers and bending over without making a fuss

You couldn't be more wrong. Just look at the rebate we get, consider Schengen and the Euro.

As always with Brexit supporters loads of rhetoric no substance. "Pfft look it up yourself" remainers have done which is why they can prove your rhetoric is incorrect. Try arguing with facts not soundbites.

Dominic Rabb is a misogynist, highly intelligent, self serving individual.
If he wants to become PM (and he really really does) then he will have to represent the people.

And I very much doubt the majority of the population of the UK vote for his ideas.

I mean the UK is stuck in a political abyss right now. Neither political party is worthy of governing the country. Thats the real travesty and somehow us citizens allowed it to happen!

I thought Germany had already agreed to make up the shortfall when we leave? Was that wrong?

not it has been suggested that it’ll fall the Germany (mostly by right wing press so far as I’ve seen), but it’s not settled. All members will likely have to contribute, with Germany and France making up the bulk.

Thanks Choc.

I’m not surprised Macron is losing it. France is volatile and is now going to face picking up the slack to support the poorer nations and the nations who are in debt. I don’t think his voters are going to appreciate that.

Plus remember this: France has borne the brunt of European terror with some truly horrendous attacks. UK intelligence is accepted as second to none in it’s ability to prevent terror attacks and gather intelligence on terror suspects here and abroad. In the case of No Deal none of the EU countries will be able to access that any longer which will leave France in particular very vulnerable. It also runs the risk of increasing support for Marine Le Pen if attacks ramp up. I suspect he is just as rattled but has a better poker face than May.

I live in France and it is fine. Certainly functioning far better than the UK at the moment.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-police-warn-protect-public-no-deal-security-risk-a8542956.html

If he wants to become PM (and he really really does) then he will have to represent the people.

And I very much doubt the majority of the population of the UK vote for his ideas.

You're wrong about the votes and needing a majority. All he has to do is persuade about 32% of the population that his way is acceptable. Even if there is nothing positive about his plans , he can always fall back on the old 'this may be crap, but it would be far worse under Corbyn' routine.

32% might get a slight majority, but then one can always bung a few billion to someone if necessary to get across the finishing line. 35% gives a 5-year dictatorship. The joys of first-past-the-post democracy.

France and Germany are understandably rattled given that they are the top two contributors to the EU. We are the third and we contribute more than the next 26 EU countries combined. We are only a couple of generations removed from terrible World Wars and I think the unspoken truth is that wanting to avoid a similar episode in the future is a big motive behind a united Europe. We worry that the UK is moving towards the right but we are nowhere near that compared to what’s going on in Germany.

Geraldine 10 we are highly reliant in European law enforcement tools.

Ethel Do you have dc? The jobs market for young people in France is dire at the moment.

Just doubled checked Ethel and yes the unemployment rate in France is 8.9% compared to 4% in the UK. Don’t know how you can claim that France is doing better then the UK?

Remember also in all this that the boundary changes will hand the Tories an electoral advantage so it will be easier for them to remain in government and act with impunity. Whatever your political allegiances, not having an effective opposition is not a good thing.

Some actual facts about our failing economy

www.gov.uk/government/news/unemployment-down-by-over-11-million-since-2010

You couldn't be more wrong. Just look at the rebate we get, consider Schengen and the Euro.

Thatcher negotiated the rebate. She’s dead.

We did not negotiate our way out of the Euro or Schengen. They are areas of the EU you consent to join rather than negotiate your way out of. The reason we are not in them is not because brave little England stood up to the EU and got concessions. It’s because joining the Euro or Schengen were so unpopular no PM would ever have had the balls to take us in to either because it was regarded as electoral poison guaranteed to unseat any party who did it at the next election.