Macron's behaviour is despicable

[Snowymountainsalways]

I am a moderate remainer, I say that because I do feel we should respect the vote. I am not a remainer who think a second ref will help. A second ref won't help regardless of the outcome, because the other side will simply demand another one, and another and so it would go on indefinitely and it is utterly futile and pointless.

I had come to the conclusion that a good deal would be the best outcome in the end. However I am just appalled at the behaviour and language coming out of the EU, and particularly Macron.

I am now even thinking what is the point? What is the point in continuing with any 'deal'? They are clearly not remotely interested.

May (for all her faults, and she has many) should gather her dignity and call it a day. We were there in good faith, the chequers plan is not perfect but it was a starting point. I had hoped it would work. It would have offered a solution of sorts.

I have cancelled our holiday next year to France. I don't want to go anywhere so openly hostile, despite the fact we have been holidaying there for my entire living life. I can't support Macron's comments that were both needlessly humiliating and rude to our prime minister.

Thoughts?

For most of us the loss of public services and workers rights would be devastating

Yes. I've long said that when people see hard won worker's rights disappear they will suddenly realise how much has truly been lost.

It's this issue and the narrower, poorer, harder life that we've condemned our children to, that make it all bloody bleak.

all so bloody bleak

If there is no deal, the key consideration has to be the Northern Irish border issue.

That, in the whole of the sorry mess our elected representatives are making of Brexit, should be at the heart of any decision and direction they take us.

Interesting to see comments throughout the thread suggesting that killing may break out in Ireland if arrangements made don't suit

What a shame to have these low expectations of such a lovely place and people ... I'd hoped we'd moved beyond that

SheGotBetteDavisEyes - for some reason, this is the subject that gets ignored or brushed over by brexit supporters but it's so clearly obvious that it's a real possibility. How on earth would eroding employment rights be in anyone's interests but that of an unscrupulous boss?

If arrangements don't suit

If the "arrangements" completely fuck over everyone living near or affected by the border and their entire way of life, you mean.

It's hardly a minor inconvenience, is it?

TM’s speech is so ill-advised. She has over-dramatised the NI customs issue and made it practically impossible for her to climb down. There is already an All-Ireland economy for agriculture, and some airlines already check passports on NI/GB flights. NI is different than the rest of the UK. This is why there was the GFA and why NI citizens are entitled to both UK and Irish passports. Economically, it would be great for NI to be in both the UK and the Single Market.

Some might feel it's hardly a reason to kill people either, Ethel ... but then, not everyone feels the need to catastrophise the issue

Agree with you OP. Surely if the EU is such a prosperous institution to be part of then everyone else will stay regardless of what we do, so I genuinely don't know why Macron and co are so determined to not to let us have anything half decent, considering we've been good, fee-paying members up to now. Maybe it's that actually, they know that the EU in its current form is widely disliked and if an exiting nation can make it work outside, the rest of the net contributors will follow suit.

I agree sixoclock. I think it's inevitable that workers rights will be eroded fairly quickly and with enormous loss.

I honestly don't think that many people realise just how much is at stake for hardworking people who have blithely benefited from decent worker's right for - perhaps - the majority of their careers.

Their rights will go; it will hurt so much and they will not be won back.

Puzzledandpissedoff what a patronizing post, dismissing years and years of violent history, exploitation and anger.

I was never a May fan but I kind of admired her doggedness. She got my back right up today with her insistence on sticking to the result of that ridiculous travesty of an illegally won referendum. She should step down or call an election. She can't do the job.

But why will workers rights be erroded? I am fascinated by speculative comments which are stated as favt!

Actually, just listening to OM on radio 4 and some MPs are coming up with decent proposals for how leave may work.
Why are they continuing to let TM make such a mess when there actually may be a sensible way out of this.
I speak as a remainer who would respect leave if it could be sorted out sensibly.

if an exiting nation can make it work outside
which is a MIGHTY big "if"
bearing in mind that the UK government and the opposition party have no clue at all what they actually want "outside" to look like

Sorry PM

People are ignoring the fact we currently abide by EU regulations and treaties. Why are people claiming these will be torn up instantly? They are legally binding and it would require a change in the law to revoke them.

FrankUnderwoodsWife
Because Rees Mogg and Co have made it clear that they want a Low Tax, Low Regulation economy
watch this video for example
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-safety-standards-workers-rights-jacob-rees-mogg-a7459336.html

Eu should look after its own by negotiating the best deal possible. As should the UK government. No doubt some uncomfortable concessions and compromises will need to be made on both sides but I'm really just hoping that we get back to stability.

Mookatron please could you explain how I was "dismissing years and years of violent history, exploitation and anger", when actually I expressed regret at the suggestion that it might return?

FrankUnderwoodsWife - it's not fact but especially in the case of us competing as an individual country against larger nations and markets, the temptation would be there for the government to compromise on employment regulations in order to allow businesses to be 'competitive' with other countries. It's not definite but I wouldn't care to see us facing that risk.

I am can not believe that posters are surprised the EU are playing hard ball. It is not in their interest for the U.K. to leave. Therefore, their skilled negotiators make it difficult for us.

Of course they do. Their job is to look after the EU. So they look to the best interest of the EU. Obviously.

And people complain because they aren't being 'nice' and 'fair' are you really that stupid?

These people used to fight for us and the EU has some excellent trade deals because of that. We have chosen to throw all that away. We, us, the U.K. .

We rejected them so they negotiate for their best interest.

The naivety and arrogance of those who think the EU should be working to support the U.K. leaving is breathtaking or just plain stupid.

FrankUnderwoodsWife - with the emphasis on 'currently' as that could easily change post brexit. Not saying for sure but if you did vote leave, I bet that you wouldn't have wanted to see any compromise on your rights as an employee.

I just think the expression "What a shame to have these low expectations of such a lovely place and people" puts all the blame for the violence and bloodshed over the Irish border - on both sides - on its people and not on the external factors and countries, and religions involved. I don't claim to understand the issues at all but I wouldn't say that what happened happened because the country or its people weren't lovely enough. The fact is we know that people feel angry enough about Ireland to use violence to make their point.

We are being made an example of.

To have the 2nd most powerful country in the EU want to leave it, doesn't look good does it?

Our problem is that we are known for dropping our drawers and bending over without making a fuss.