Macron's behaviour is despicable

[Snowymountainsalways]

I am a moderate remainer, I say that because I do feel we should respect the vote. I am not a remainer who think a second ref will help. A second ref won't help regardless of the outcome, because the other side will simply demand another one, and another and so it would go on indefinitely and it is utterly futile and pointless.

I had come to the conclusion that a good deal would be the best outcome in the end. However I am just appalled at the behaviour and language coming out of the EU, and particularly Macron.

I am now even thinking what is the point? What is the point in continuing with any 'deal'? They are clearly not remotely interested.

May (for all her faults, and she has many) should gather her dignity and call it a day. We were there in good faith, the chequers plan is not perfect but it was a starting point. I had hoped it would work. It would have offered a solution of sorts.

I have cancelled our holiday next year to France. I don't want to go anywhere so openly hostile, despite the fact we have been holidaying there for my entire living life. I can't support Macron's comments that were both needlessly humiliating and rude to our prime minister.

Thoughts?

Snowymountains
I hope we will find a good solution and all will be well in the end is all I can say! Until the next time
That is an utter cop out.

The best solution is to cancel Brexit and stay in the EU
The next best is the Norway version
The least worst is the Canada option
The very worst is "no deal"

Which do you want ?

You haven't read all the posts properly if you thought I was being polite, Snowymountainsalways. As I said, I don't think you are who you say you are at all. On the other hand you have quoted Macron as saying something he didn't actually say, so maybe it's an interpretation problem.

You haven't read all the posts properly if you thought I was being polite

I came on to say that exact thing about me

If all nations agreed they could offer a pause on FOM for a set amount of time if any nation felt they needed it

See, this is the kind of comment that could ONLY be made by someone who really has no clue what the EU is or how it works.

The rules about free movement of people, services, goods and capital are the cornerstone of EU law on which everything else depends. And it only works when everyone respects the rules. As soon as one country doesn't respect those rules, the whole systel stops working.

And you seem to be suggesting, what... what we get a pause on free movement of people? Hello, we're leaving and we're saying we want to end free movement of people. The issue is that we can't do that without losing all the benefits of being in the single market, creating a mess over the Irish border issue, stirring up the independence issue in Scotland again and completely tanking our economy and currency.

But it's "the will of the people", right? Is it bollocks. And that trumps everything else, apparently.

LuluJakey, I think you've summed up what I was about to post! This bad-tempered "negotiation" is all about discouraging the reluctant participants in other EU countries. There are lots of elections scheduled for next year, and if the EU accommodates the UK's smooth exit with aplomb and courtesy, then there may be mass defections.

I'm a remainer, always have been, and I don't want a second referendum. I want a leader to bloody well grow a pair and say, look, this is suicidal nonsense, I'm calling a halt to it. I thought Labour would do that the day after the ref results, but they didn't and have therefore lost my vote for the foreseeable.

Brexit could have been managed so much better. For a start, the leave lot could have had a workable plan. There could have been a much, much longer preparatory period in which we gathered the resources and expertise necessary for untangling 40 years of interconnected strands. We could have known what was going to happen to EU citizens here and UK citizens in the EU and let people actually decide what they were going to do with their lives instead of this utterly inhumane limbo we're left in. We could have worked out what we were going to do about NI and Gibraltar.

None of this has happened. It's all been rushed, half-assed and phoned-in. It needs to stop, but we need a leader who will stand up and do that. Referendums are a massive red herring IMO.

Personally, I applaud Macron for telling the truth. It's about time the Tories got a dose of reality.

Ta1kinpeace It looks like it’s to late to stop Brexit, to much time and effort has gone into it and to many people’s reputations are at stake
No Norway, FOM
So it’s Canada or no deal,

I think she's read the posts, she just chose to ignore them! And yes, clearly the leavebot office has gone to the pub.

Seeing those smug suited EU leaders has reinforced my leave vote. Theresa May's speech was brilliant.

No deal is better than a bad deal

Short term pain for long term gain. Bring it on.

Who wants to be at the EU party when they behave like they have. I don't for sure

Oh. The second shift has clocked on.

It's not too late for EEA (or staying in the customs union).

All it needs is another speech like today's explaining in words of one syllable that it's the best option for Northern Ireland and Gibraltar, that it means frictionless trade can continue which is good for the economy but there is no need for uncontrolled freedom of movement (or any FOM if we just go for the customs union) and the compromise is we don't do our own trade deals. It can easily be done.

XingMing I don’t get this idea of mass defections, why would the likes of Poland , Romania, etc what to leave they pay nothing and get a lot back

Short term pain for long term gain

Sadly I think it's short term pain for longer term pain.

Short term pain for long term gain.

What exactly do you think is going to be short term about the pain, out of interest?

Jacob Rees Mogg said we shouldn't expect to see any benefit in the next 50 years.

Satsumaeater EEA means FOM, so that’s a non starter

This whole fake 'victim' mentality being shown by brexit politicians is laughable and clearly designed to be a cheap way of rallying up a bit of jingoism. The EU are a majority and we are in a minority. They set their stall out at the beginning as to where their red lines were. We chose to ignore them and plough on with unworkable options. Now that realisation has dawned that the EU is not rushing to offer us our cake and eat it we are crying 'bully'.

Whilst I'm on a rant, I realise that May and all the other politicians have to try and paint brexit as being some overwhelming popular move by UK citizens but it was a small majority so to keep harping on about the will of the people is completely disingenuous. The rest of us are completely ignored and the arch brexiteers have even done their best to sideline any real compromise from day one. They have always seen the EU as an adversary, not a partner and are desperate to metaphorically pull up the drawbridge and go and sign these fantastical deals with other countries, despite it being patently obvious that any truly negotiated deal takes years. Do not be under any illusion that any rushed deal will be anything other than heavily weighted in the favour of the nation that bestows the deal on us.

Seeing those smug suited EU leaders

So much more smug than the suited Tories.

The problem is that 27 countries are speaking as one, and the UK isn't able to do the same.

Hesta54
It looks like it’s to late to stop Brexit, to much time and effort has gone into it and to many people’s reputations are at stake
Nope.
The UK government could vote to rescind Article 50 at any time until late March 2019
and lots of civil servants and technocrats would heave a HUGE sigh of relief and crack open the bubbly
Brexit can and should be cancelled

EEA might be unpopular because of free movement but no way is it too late for it to happen.

Monsieur Macron has suggested that the Leave campaign had some liars. Well, that is not exactly news is it? The pity is that he did not name the worst one, Boris Johnson.

I'd be happy for Northern Ireland to have different arrangements for goods if it is part of a deal.

@Geraldine170

Once the UK leaves, the EUs total GDP will still be approx 20% of world GDP, about 18 trillion dollars, the euro is the 2nd most traded currency after the $, They export to us 8% of their total exports, we export to them 44%.
We are leaving a significant trading bloc, with not so much as a plan in mind, other than "it will be ok"
Losing 39 billion will hurt them, of course it will but it will not make them change the rules for a leaving member state.

Our tourists makes up less than 2% of Spanish GDP and who is suggesting no one from the UK will go there post brexit? i believe on another thread it was shown to be far lower but we 'll stick with the 2%.

This whole idea of "they need us more than we need them" is exactly why we are where we are now.

TBH i'm surprised the EU has stuck with the negotiations, we must be so infuriating to deal with.

BlitheringIdiot - have a word, have you seen some of the arch brexiteers in the Tory party?

Short term pain for long term gain. Bring it on

Is this just a meaningless soundbite? Can you explain what you mean? What are you 'bringing on'? Can you explain why this is a good thing for the country?

EEA means FOM, so that’s a non starter

but not uncontrolled FOM.

Anyway the whole thing is so depressing I'm off to look at beauty advent calendars and spend money to cheer myself up. Have a good weekend everyone.