Macron's behaviour is despicable

[Snowymountainsalways]

I am a moderate remainer, I say that because I do feel we should respect the vote. I am not a remainer who think a second ref will help. A second ref won't help regardless of the outcome, because the other side will simply demand another one, and another and so it would go on indefinitely and it is utterly futile and pointless.

I had come to the conclusion that a good deal would be the best outcome in the end. However I am just appalled at the behaviour and language coming out of the EU, and particularly Macron.

I am now even thinking what is the point? What is the point in continuing with any 'deal'? They are clearly not remotely interested.

May (for all her faults, and she has many) should gather her dignity and call it a day. We were there in good faith, the chequers plan is not perfect but it was a starting point. I had hoped it would work. It would have offered a solution of sorts.

I have cancelled our holiday next year to France. I don't want to go anywhere so openly hostile, despite the fact we have been holidaying there for my entire living life. I can't support Macron's comments that were both needlessly humiliating and rude to our prime minister.

Thoughts?

Cross Post snowy. This is the long game they are playing. If we come out of this at all well, it's bad for the EU. The EU wants us to collapse and fail and it wants you and me and our children to be poorer after brexit.

May laid out her red lines at the beginning of the process, and the EU laid out theirs. Why is it shocking that both sides have stuck to their red lines? Are only the British allowed to have red lines, everyone else should keel over and accommodate them?

I would have thought it's pretty obvious grimes

Capt it's arguable that the only reason May was allowed power was that none of the men in the running wanted to dirty their hands with this mess. It's a classic situation of sending a woman in to do a job that men felt was beneath them and too messy for them, with the plan of her going when the job is done and it's safe for the men to take power again. It's pretty disgusting all round really.

Sky news are suggesting there is going to be a last minute agreement, I find this very very hard to believe having watched yesterday unfold.

she has shown incredible stamina and consideration for all parties

I don't think the SNP would quite agree that they've been shown consideration . Look at the "debate" on devolved powers being taken back from Scotland during which not a single Scottish MP was allowed to speak, before all the English MPs filed in to vote to overrule them

The EU wants us to collapse and fail and it wants you and me and our children to be poorer after brexit.

Oh bring out the flippin' violins.

Whinging.

No, the EU can keep their red lines, that's cool. Just goes to show though. A deal could be made that's mutually beneficial but only one side wants that, for pretty obvious reasons.

Again, the OP has posted (as I wade through the quagmire of delusion),
"We can't just ignore the vote" - well actually you can. The EU vs Ireland on the Lisbon Treaty shows you just how much you can ignore the vote until you get one that you like. Ireland voted overwhelmingly to reject the Lisbon treaty. Wait a few months and ta-dah! Ireland went to the polls a second time on Lisbon and WayHey! It was passed.

To say you can't ignore the vote is pure ignorance. You can and in fairness, it should have been ignored as far back as the time that Cameron put the choice to the people. He should have said "Ok, we hear you're not happy being in the EU, what can be done to make the situation better and still remain in the EU?" instead it was "Ok, we're leaving now. Oh, and I'm resigning now too so bye!"

Why is it whinging? It's obviously true. The EU can't afford for us to succeed and be better off. How is this not obvious?

She's about to say:

Dominic Raab and I have spent the morning on Mumsnet, having joined yesterday, trying to convince people that Macron is a nasty man who has undermined the UK's position and insulted our politicians.

Having been told numerous times that Macron was only telling the truth and that Brexit is a crock of sh1te, I've decided to resign and emigrate to Switzerland, where I can sit and enjoy Phil's money in peace eating Cherry Gateaux at the local Konditorei

No deal brexit and WTO terms. I have no problem with that. We will cope and eventually thrive. The EU is trying to control and sabotage us. Fuck them.

Brexiteers reduced to victim complex

That is not the impression I am getting, most brexiteers seem to be rather chuffed they have been proven right that the EU are a bunch of bullies that are not capable of being remotely flexible. I don't see so much as victim as crowing. I happen to think the EU goodwill is there, and a deal is still possible.

We will see.

The EU is like a club and it has fundamental principles and rules. Why can brexit voters not understand that? They seem to acknowledge it but yet at the same time we should have them changed for our benefit and possible advantage over the rest otherwise they're bullies. It's like a separate universe.

There is a code of conduct, understanding and diplomacy among leaders and Macron breached it.

You really are incredibly naive or completely obtuse.

You've been asked by many posters if your actually read what he said, I accept that you probably have read a translation and don't properly understand, and do you actually grasp what and who he is talking about?! Yet you fail to answer this.

He was not bullying at all, his statement is completely correct. TM should bw ashamed of how she acts, she's not fit for purpose and the sooner she goes the better.

Havanananana I love it!! Yes if only I were Theresa I would be able to tell you all what I am about to say!! You would hear it first here on MN!!!! (if only there was some electricity to get the show on the road :) )

Ireland voted overwhelmingly to reject the Lisbon treaty. Wait a few months and ta-dah! Ireland went to the polls a second time on Lisbon and WayHey! It was passed.

People are forever trotting out that chestnut, ignoring how referendums work in other countries. The treaty as it stood was rejected. There followed intense negotiations to resolve the problems that the Irish voters foresaw, and the treaty was re-worked to make the terms acceptable to voters. That's how adults do things.

I think I might say I prefer to walk in the snowy mountains than be savaged on a daily basis on all sides :)

A deal could be made that's mutually beneficial but only one side wants that, for pretty obvious reasons.

What kind of deal would be mutually beneficial? From what I can see, the UK is asking the EU to give us special treatment. How is that fair?

Personally i applaud Macron, May isnt being bullied the EU are looking after themselves and why shouldnt they? We are trying to do the same thing. Except we're going into negotiations as a sole trader with with a £5 negotiating for things worth £500 vs an international conglomerate. It was so obvious this was gonna happen, very naive and egotistical for people to think the EU would go oh its the UK lets roll over.

Just a suggestion, OP, for your holiday next year, can I recommend India?
I have zero confidence now in this deal process and will need to book further afield for next year.

No offence OP, but the way you talk about the whole thing, EU being bullies and that we should just walk away to spite them, etc., is extremely simplistic and just demonstrates how misinformed the general public always were and STILL are about the whole subject. Should never have gone to a public vote in the first place.

It's entirely inappropriate to use the term 'bully' about the EU. This is about the realities of power. We have put ourselves in a bleak position where we either plummet without a deal or take what the EU offers. They're in the stronger position and understandably will not offer anything that breaches their core principles.
Bullying is about targeting a person by making them feel small or unworthy. Countries don't work the same way. There's a factual basis to how large the economy is, trade advantage etc. If one country has more power then they'd be mad not to use it.

The EU wants us to collapse and fail and it wants you and me and our children to be poorer after brexit.

We were told that we had "all the power" in the negotiations yet now the EU has the power to make us all poorer?

And if that's the plan wouldn't the sensible thing be to say "OK, we're going to have a referendum and stay in after all? So much for your plan to make us poorer, suckers!!"

How do people even come up with stuff like this?