Macron's behaviour is despicable

[Snowymountainsalways]

I am a moderate remainer, I say that because I do feel we should respect the vote. I am not a remainer who think a second ref will help. A second ref won't help regardless of the outcome, because the other side will simply demand another one, and another and so it would go on indefinitely and it is utterly futile and pointless.

I had come to the conclusion that a good deal would be the best outcome in the end. However I am just appalled at the behaviour and language coming out of the EU, and particularly Macron.

I am now even thinking what is the point? What is the point in continuing with any 'deal'? They are clearly not remotely interested.

May (for all her faults, and she has many) should gather her dignity and call it a day. We were there in good faith, the chequers plan is not perfect but it was a starting point. I had hoped it would work. It would have offered a solution of sorts.

I have cancelled our holiday next year to France. I don't want to go anywhere so openly hostile, despite the fact we have been holidaying there for my entire living life. I can't support Macron's comments that were both needlessly humiliating and rude to our prime minister.

Thoughts?

By the way, Chequers was never a realistic solution...

Quietrebel Your view yet again is very extreme. I think there were lies on both sides. There were exaggerations on both sides. I voted to remain for security and prosperity and peace. I understand that others voted for something else. There does not need to be this huge polarisation.

Yes with bells on to your post amicissima.

Snowy what exactly is the deal you want them to get on with? Spell it out for me.

Yes we do need to get on with a deal. It isn't Macron's fault or Barnier or EU that the UK steadfastly refused to budge on an unworkable proposal.

May to make a statement at 1.45

The UK government has never put a deal on the table that is compatible with the EU freedom of movement principles (all pillars) or the legally binding GFA. Never. Because there isn't one.

Now it's wake up time. Blaming the EU in general or any EU leader in particular for calling this out shows an utter lack of understanding of where the responsibility for this mess lies.

My bullshit-o-meter has reached new peaks on an almost weekly basis since July 2016. I embrace any politician who can bring it down from those dizzy heights. Thank you Macron!

amicissimma

Yes! This is exactly my experience. we don't sit there delivering hateful messages at birthday parties and sports fields. Mostly we all agree in some way shape or form. Most people want a good outcome and a compromise. I believe this is what the EU want to, so this is why it is so disappointing. I feel we are moving far away from compromise and understanding and straight into the slip stream of extreme brexit - hard brexit.

I've talked to many Leavers and I'm yet to meet one who thought leaving would be easy - just better in the long run than staying.

You mean except for David "we'll have trade deals with all our main partners within 12-24 months" Davis and Liam "easiest trade deal in history" Fox?

Personally I'm still waiting for the German carmakers to come along and save us. Any time round about now would be good.

I have just rcvd news (may be wrong) that May will be resigning at 1400 GMT

Macron said Brexit is “the choice of the British people, a choice pushed by those who predicted easy solutions … they are liars, they left the next day so they didn’t have to manage it.”

He is clearly referring to the Brexiteers, not Britain or May herself.

I guess our wait is going to be over sooner than we think.

In about 15 minutes.....

I sincerely hope she isn't going to resign. WTH?

The bashing just needs to stop actually.
We need to get on with a deal ffs

My thoughts exactly.

The government put on a war footing, yes exactly.

Not because this has anything to do with being at war; just because this is a known government term and strategy to put aside in party politics and collect the best of the talent from all political parties at one table when a serious crisis faces the UK. That isn't inflammatory language, it's a basic and sensible move to focus on sorting this unholy mess out.

At this point just saying 'oh well, forget it then' and just continuing as if the last two years never happened isn't really an option.

OP, again, we are trying to have our cake and eat it. The EU set their stall out early that the red lines wouldn't be crossed. We arrogantly assumed that they were anxious to sell us cars and would cave in but they haven't and now we are affronted.

I'm not sure what good her resigning will do. Who would replace her?

There's been nothing but inflammatory, insulting, jeering language from British politicians all through this process, and they're lauded for it. One EU politician points out the lying - which really happened - and you're all offended dignity and lecturing and finger-wagging about it being unhelpful to the negotiation 😂

^^this. The yellow headed one and his supporting act are liars. Europeans speak much more bluntly than we do (thank god), and Macron is entirely correct.

Personally I think Hard Brexit will do the country good. In the very very long run. Not economically of course. And there’ll be a massive recession and social unrest. And the NHS is likely to fail. And the fact our country is far from self sufficient will be made very clear in supermarkets.

But maybe, just maybe, we’ll stop being so fucking arrogant and recognise that we aren’t calling all the shots. We might even stop pretending that because our ancestors once invaded a quarter of the globe, that doesn’t make us special today. And maybe after 15 or so more years we’ll hold out politicians to account instead of endlessly whining about it all being ‘the EUs fault”.

We might even have to admit that actuallywe didn’t “win the war” single-handedly. But I won’t hold my breath on that one.

I don't understand British exceptionalism. Johnny Foreigner has their own agenda these days beyond doing what Blighty wants. Brexiters lied. They liked to the British people and consistently lied about the EU and EU member countries. They lie daily in the UK media and May speaks out both sides of her mouth - one to the likes of the xenophobes and Rees-Moggs of the world and the other to EU leaders saying very different things.

And they have treated Ireland like shite. If you want to be treated well by foreign leaders you should treat them well too. May opened this latest summit by telling Ireland to feck off. Not nice.

I am amazed it's taken this long for the EU leaders to publicly respond to UK insults and hypocrisy.

Or snap election next summer. Speculations are gathering.

snowy
No, I'm absolutely for a deal and against any polarisation.
Remain as such could not be extreme by nature as it was a vote for the status quo and the reasons you name here. I'm completely on the UKs side but I just think the polarisation has been driven by the leave campaign (they were for a radical change, were they not?) and that they made untenable promises to convince people it was the right thing. Unfortunately the nature of the beast is that a deal is only possible with compromises that brexiteers won't entertain and that the EU cant entertain without changing its very core principles. I regret that it's come to this...

Cross post.

Oh fuck. If May resigns and we have to waste more time on fricking leadership campaigns and quite possibly a general election ….

I've read the first 100 posts (I will go back and read the others once I've posted this) and all I can say is oh my goodness.

Posts from the OP:

However I am just appalled at the behaviour and language coming out of the EU, and particularly Macron. - I don't know why. The 52% voted to leave and for what looked like 16 months appeared to do nothing. Didn't wake up to the NI Border issue, didn't wake up to the trade issue. Just sleep-walked into this current situation.

They are clearly not remotely interested. - The EU is very interested. They didn't set down the parameters of the UK leaving the EU, May did. She was the one that announced that the UK would be leaving the European Courts, the free trade area, the free movement area etc. etc. etc. The EU is still going to be in situ the day after the UK leaves and all the issues will be landed fairly and squarely at the door of the UK government.

So all of you cheering on Macron he has just led us to the final gates of a very hard brexit. - Nope. Macron is not leading you anywhere that you weren't already going anyway.

I am horrified too. I thought the EU were better than this.
I definitely don't think it will be just the UK that will feel pain, it will be the whole of the EU. - The EU will feel some pain. Ireland will definitely feel pain and confusion as we are the ONLY place that will have a land border with the UK and all of that mess that the UK chose for itself.

The EU have made themselves look even worse, they do actually look like bullies now. I say that as a remainer, but as an honest decent person I don't think it is on. - As a remainer or a leaver, the EU are doing their best by 26 other countries. One of which has a land border with the UK. How about turning the mirror around? The UK could be the bullies "If you don't take the Checkers deal, there is nothing else available. Take it or leave it!" Bully tactics at all?

The tories now have their perfect excuse to execute plan B. - I think the rest of the UK would be happy if they would execute Plan A and have actually made some decent headway on that plan to begin with. They stuck a LIE on the side of a bus and in my opinion won a referendum on that lie.

It is disturbing to see that no effort whatsoever was made - I would have to 100% agree with this statement. No effort at all. By the UK Government. Nothing. They have had zero and I really do mean zero interest in Northern Ireland. I'd be surprised if they could find it on a globe! They appear to have forgotten to do their homework and in the past few weeks has rushed through some half-baked attempt at something, put that as their policy and been walking around with their fingers crossed hoping that it is good enough to pass muster. It doesn't. Not even close. And time is running out.
The EU made the rules so that it would be unattractive to leave, difficult to leave, and the UK (when they joined and all of the other opportunities after that) decided "Ok, we're ok with this".

I don't see it as tit-for-tat, I see it as the UK realising that they aren't the Empire they once were, they are just a player like a lot of other countries. Not the super-power, just a power.

trancepants

All this history, countries overestimate the degree to which other countries are prepared to step in and 'help'. I'm not even sure what you think the EU would be able to do about an escalation of conflict in the North. The idea that they would say 'Hang on, hands off our EU citizens' is laughable. These are problems coming from within the province. It's not as if they can give England a strict talking to - if the British idea had a clear idea of what would resolve the problem they would probably be only too happy to do it.

You're also wrong to think that things are very different to how they were before GFA. The tension is still there - to the point that Stormont isn't even functioning and the news carries stories of politically motivated violence every week.

I'm not sure what you mean by the 'balance of power' shifting. You don't need a huge number of people prepared to use guns and bombs to have a problem. They don't need to be supported by most of the population.

Perhaps we can watch May's statement in ten minutes time, and when we have heard what she has says we can decide how we feel about it.

I don't think she's going to resign. I do think she might walk away from the negotiations though: www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/brexit-the-five-options-open-to-the-pm-after-salzburg-tr2fmh5jn

We'll know in a few minutes.