Macron's behaviour is despicable

[Snowymountainsalways]

I am a moderate remainer, I say that because I do feel we should respect the vote. I am not a remainer who think a second ref will help. A second ref won't help regardless of the outcome, because the other side will simply demand another one, and another and so it would go on indefinitely and it is utterly futile and pointless.

I had come to the conclusion that a good deal would be the best outcome in the end. However I am just appalled at the behaviour and language coming out of the EU, and particularly Macron.

I am now even thinking what is the point? What is the point in continuing with any 'deal'? They are clearly not remotely interested.

May (for all her faults, and she has many) should gather her dignity and call it a day. We were there in good faith, the chequers plan is not perfect but it was a starting point. I had hoped it would work. It would have offered a solution of sorts.

I have cancelled our holiday next year to France. I don't want to go anywhere so openly hostile, despite the fact we have been holidaying there for my entire living life. I can't support Macron's comments that were both needlessly humiliating and rude to our prime minister.

Thoughts?

@Snowymountainsalways

There were others he could have articulated that view without resorting to playground tactics. Had he used the facts and not started jeering he may well have had my support.
I can not condone playground politics.

You clearly haven't been watching the Westminster Parliament on TV, or PMQ. It makes the average playground look like an oasis of reasoned calm. Perhaps Macron has and has decided to adopt a similar tone when speaking about May's plan.

The stakes are too high, especially for France!

Please expand on this. How will France be impacted by Brexit and just how high are the stakes?

OP I have a question for you. You claim to be a remainer who thinks we should accept the vote and get on with it. In that way you're probably in the same camp as Theresa May.

So, Macron made some comments, which as far as I'm concerned are entirely truthful, about how the people who encouraged the electorate to vote leave with promises that it would be easy and we would be rich afterwards were lying, and about how they all fucked off the morning afterwards so they didn't have to deal with it.

What part of that statement, in your opinion, is (a) untrue, (b) inflammatory, or (c) a criticism of Theresa May?

Let's just take a moment to remember that Theresa May did not back leaving the EU prior to the referendum, but took on the job of dealing with it when those who backed it failed to step up to the plate.

You may think she is doing a terrible job, and certainly there are many things we can validly criticise her for, but I don't think we can really interpret that statement made by Macron to be referring to Theresa May.

DC asked for various things and actually got about 3/4 of them but the 'party' said it wasn't enough.

Please expand on this. How will France be impacted by Brexit and just how high are the stakes? I will assume you are being ironic. France is in dire straits financially, on the bones of its arse so to speak. The last thing it needs is brexit, hence the outburst by Macron.
I don't think I need to explain more fully than that. Macron needs to calm down and mature a little, he is young accepted, but he is really showing his inexperience right now.

As I understand it ( and I don't really) the chequers deal wouldn't have got through parliament anyway so what was the point I. Even taking it to Salzburg.
It's just another shitty chapter in this whole farce that will see us not only a bit of a joke internationally but also poorer on lots of ways (not exclusively financially).
I'm going to have to stop watching the news again for a bit I think as it makes me so angry.

But Autumn- why does it have to happen? If public opinion has swung?
Why keep on digging this hole?

He called the Brexiters liars, not the country. They did lie. Their lies are being consistently exposed and are not just threatening the UK but having an impact on many other countries as well. Why on earth should Macron not point this out?

And I am genuinely baffled that anyone expects a referendum result to be 'respected' when it was based on criminal activity, lies and subject to foreign influence. If, under a Peoples' Vote - where different outcomes are clearly and truthfully outlined - there were a clear vote in favour of Leave, I would, with enormous regret, respect that they had won a fair majority. I have no respect whatsoever for the shenanighans to which we've all been subject for the last two and a half years.

Charliethefeminist that may well merit a separate discussion but I'm not sure how that relates to the argument over the merits of the EU's position on chequers.

Many on here are all too keen to jump to conclusions and love a bit of frog-bashing. Macron said he respected the vote of the British people - but that that decision had been influenced by people with bad faith and who didn't have the courage to see it through. Not demeaning towards the British people or even May. Entirely aimed at Cameron and Farage. And factually correct.
May will not get out of this mess by herself. Macron is laying the blame at the feet of those responsible. So should the public.

AutumnWindy

I agree. I despair at the divided and back-stabbing politicians at the moment when a strong, united voice is needed. I blame all the parties for this!

Trancepants that is total BS of the highest order.

Which part is BS?
Fact: There are over 1.8million people in NI.
Fact: Any British citizens born on the island of Ireland are automatically entitled to Irish citizenship, making them actual or potential EU citizens.
Fact: Britons with Irish ancestry are applying for Irish passports in such record numbers that the Irish passport office is months behind on dealing with applications.
Fact: The 'troubles' was a media friendly euphemism for what was a state of guerrilla warfare and life under military oversight.
Fact: US presidents traditionally rely on the support from their large (romantically Irish republican) Irish-American population and as such a special relationship exists between the two countries.

So while we can't predict the future. The EU will not be sitting back if NI descends back into a state of war because NI is home to a massive enclave of EU citizens and potential EU citizens. The situation isn't remotely comparable to how it was before the GFA. The balance of power has shifted far further in the opposite direction.

If the next Referendum were to be held in January, even if not a single person has changed their mind , Remain would win narrowly purely because of the demographics of older voters having died since June 2016 and young people reaching voting age.

To repeat - that's before factoring in anyone changing their mind (whether that's realising what a clusterfuck leaving would be, not wanting a hard Brexit, having given Cameron and his austerity policies a bloody nose or wanting to stick one on the "despicable" for telling the truth Macron)

Arf at all those saying that the big bad Eu should be nice to us and help come up with solutions to a problem of our own making!

As if England would be kind and benevolent if Scotland voted for independence!!! Which I think will be back in the agenda after March.

akerman- agree wholeheartedly with you

Not sure why people consider not thinking that leaving the EU is a terribly bright idea is some kind of 'extremist' position.

Autumnwindy

The whole government needs to be put on a war footing

Thank you autumn, this is exactly what I am afraid of. The use of inflammatory language leads to this kind of sentiment. For people like me I am just annoyed that the only deal on the table has stumbled and perhaps expired altogether. For leavers this will no doubt prove how stubborn and difficult the EU are. And for autumn this means war.

Could he not have been more responsible in his delivery? And much more respectful?

He's right. This is a stupid shower of shit the Tories are determined to ramrod through because they are beyond stubborn and don't truly give the fuck about anyone but themselves and their cronies. There was never going to be any other result from Brexit besides the rest of the EU rubbing their hands in glee at the opportunity to punish us for our stupidity, short-sightedness and jingoism.

This is hilarious.

They are being mean and childish and I don't like those big bullies.

Get over yourselves.

The UK still sees itself as a superpower, not recognising the fact that it never was a superpower but rather an oppressor. When the shoe is on the other foot and UK doesn't get it's way, it stamps it's foot and cries.

Actually it would be hilarious if it wasn't for the fact that yet again the UK is trying to fuck over Ireland.

prettybird, do you have a reliable source for the French?
In a number places, he's quoted as referring to those who promised "monts et merveilles", which isn't in the version I posted earlier.

If the leaders of various nations had been more supportive then May could have returned with some dignity,

What were they supposed to do to support her, and what was there to support?

Barnier rejected Chequers as soon as it was published.

May then wrote an article in the German press saying 'Chequers is the only deal on the table' - and promptly read it out to the others at the dinner in Salzburg. She was wasting her breath - they'd already read it and dismissed it - and then she used the opportunity to criticise Barnier.

Finally, having agreed the Irish Backstop solution last December (the one that Davis promptly dismissed the day after) she tells Varadkar that she won't budge and is not going to meet the October deadline either.

The woman is deluded. Rather than criticising Macron for finally saying what everyone else has been thinking, how about directing your ire at the hopeless May, Davis, Fox, Johnson, Raab, Gove team of incompetents.

frog bashing

I think you have it all the wrong way around. It is Brit bashing not frog bashing. Goodness me. The bashing just needs to stop actually.
We need to get on with a deal ffs.

snowy
How was he disrespectful to the country? To a bunch of liars, yes, blunt, yes, but at no point insulting to the people who were misled. You say you're a remainer so you should be angry with those who peddled lies during the campaign.

So if the deal is dead in the water

When will May leave or be pushed? Who replaces her and what will they do next?

Macron needs to find some self control for the next time around.

The whole government needs to be put on a war footing. This is happening, now pull together and get on with it.

Or, how about - "this looks like a really bad idea so how about not doing it?"