Macron's behaviour is despicable

[Snowymountainsalways]

I am a moderate remainer, I say that because I do feel we should respect the vote. I am not a remainer who think a second ref will help. A second ref won't help regardless of the outcome, because the other side will simply demand another one, and another and so it would go on indefinitely and it is utterly futile and pointless.

I had come to the conclusion that a good deal would be the best outcome in the end. However I am just appalled at the behaviour and language coming out of the EU, and particularly Macron.

I am now even thinking what is the point? What is the point in continuing with any 'deal'? They are clearly not remotely interested.

May (for all her faults, and she has many) should gather her dignity and call it a day. We were there in good faith, the chequers plan is not perfect but it was a starting point. I had hoped it would work. It would have offered a solution of sorts.

I have cancelled our holiday next year to France. I don't want to go anywhere so openly hostile, despite the fact we have been holidaying there for my entire living life. I can't support Macron's comments that were both needlessly humiliating and rude to our prime minister.

Thoughts?

The EU should not have misled the UK team then. It was the EU that asked for proposals.

Come off it. They pointed out all that was unworkable about Chequers (not to forget Lancaster House before it) and asked for new, workable proposals. Misled, my arse.

This isn’t going to be over for a long time. The ramifications of Brexit will be felt for generations

prettybird I don't think inflammatory language is helpful at this stage in the process. I especially do not expect to hear the president speak in that way. There were others he could have articulated that view without resorting to playground tactics. Had he used the facts and not started jeering he may well have had my support.

I can not condone playground politics pretty bird. The stakes are too high, especially for France!

*other ways

@Snowymountainsalways.
I AM British but some asholes have deprived me of my rights and pension.

Some of my closest friends voted to leave and respect their view and reasons for doing so. I don't agree with them

Snowymountainsalways, I would find it very helpful if you would spell out how you disagree with your friends' leave vote.

What do you think they're wrong about?

I'm afraid I can't get myself into a flap because Macron said the Leave Campaign were liars. They were and are liars and they broke the rules. No point sugar coating it. The whole thing is a totally avoidable shambles that will screw our country for decades.

And I agree with Isitsixoclock about immigration.

And for those that keep saying that the EU needs the UK's money (I refuse to say "our" as a) I'm Scottish and b) this is not being done in my name ), yes, the EU will miss the UK's contribution to its fixed costs, but do they even realise that far from being one of the biggest contributors, per head the UK is down near the bottom of the net contributors. 8th, iirc - on a par with Italy.

And given the hassle and obstruction that the UKIP MEPs cause (to my shame, there is one of the six Scottish MEPs is UKIP the only elected UKIP representative in any capacity in Scotland ), it will probably save them money once the UK has left and the EU has re-jigged its budget.

Didn't the allies try to punish the Weimar Republic after the 1st world war which led to a lot of ill feeling that Hitler was able to exploit and gain power. I wish someone in the EU would say ' we will give you a couple of years to come to your senses - have this transition deal and in the meantime hopefully someone else more sensible (ie not Teresa or Jezza) become PM.

OP the facts will come out by themselves after brexit. As for mediation, I'm not sure how practical that would be given that you have millions on one side and millions on the other.

Racists and bigots shouldn't be rewarded

Yes, great. except that those of us who aren't racists and bigots will get punished as well. Sadly, I also expect overt racism to get worse after Brexit. Mr Daily Mail Reader* isn't going to be happy when he wakes up on Day 1 of Brexit Britain and sees someone with a brown face on "his" streets... So we have that to look forward to as well.

*Only a tiny minority, but they definitely exist.

If you think about it he was actually condemning individuals. Individuals who need to be condemned because they did cheat and lie, whether you think we should leave or not.

So the use of the word liars is why you've cancelled your holiday?

You'd still be going to France if he'd said "deceivers"?

Or are you suggesting that BoJo et al did not lie and walk away?

I don't think inflammatory language is helpful at this stage in the process.

There's been nothing but inflammatory, insulting, jeering language from British politicians all through this process, and they're lauded for it. One EU politician points out the lying - which really happened - and you're all offended dignity and lecturing and finger-wagging about it being unhelpful to the negotiation 😂

There is nothing inflammatory in what he said He didn't accuse May of lying. He stated that those in the Leave campaign lied - and then buggered off (but he said that but more diplomatically ). (and yes, I've read it in the original French and the translation is accurate).

Both fact

I really don't get your point.

The EU leadership (or more accurately all Eu member states, to whom the 'leadership answers) has as its agenda only the RULES of being in the EU

If you're truly concerned about "keeping EU rules", you might want to look into who the main rule breakers are (Clue: it's certainly not the UK)

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/angela-merkel-germany-breaks-more-eu-rules-worst-bottom-class-a8198271.html

OP, the stakes are high for us more than France. It's us that are jettisoning us from the safety net of the single market. You say that you are a remain minded voter so you must have appreciated the economic advantages of remaining in the EU.

@PerkingFaintly want to bet on whether you get a reply to that post or not?

@Snowymountainsalways I agree with your sentiments. Unfortunately, MN Brexit threads tend to be hijacked by the two extremes of the argument rather than the pragmatists in the middle.

My prediction is that negotiations will collapse between now and March. There will be a leadership contest, but no general election. I honestly do not fear a hard Brexit or a no deal situation. Business will take over and governments will formalise the agreements reached.

I agree with pp who mentioned how DC was treated. He asked for very little and got even less in return. It is the same here. TM will be glad when she can hand the reins over, I'm sure.

I expect to be disagreed with by many on here!

PerkingFaintly Immigration has been very good for this country in my view, we couldn't function without it.
This seems to be a sticking point with my leave friends. They disagree and say it is holding back wage growth, taking valuable jobs and depleting public resources and services.

Ps. I'm a leaver but not particularly militant about it. I couldn't decide how to vote until the evening. I would vote leave again.

I think the only way forward is another referendum.

I have been in support of this since Justine Greening suggested it, but did have a wobble as I did question whether or not it would be democratic to do so.

I voted Remain, but could support Leave if it was in any way manageable and had been handled well- but that seems not to be the case.

The Leave campaign was based on lies.

No Deal was never put forward as realistic by the Leave campaign before the referendum ('Of course we'll get a deal' was the rhetoric at the time) but looks more and more likely.

I think I heard that roughly 75% of people now want another referendum (on Newsnight recently- but it was late, I was tired, so I may be misquoting).

Why can we not just have another referendum (and I reckon it would be overwhelmingly Remain now that the full extent of this fiasco is becoming clearer).

Haven't read the thread but agree with the OP. He's a slimey mysogynist. Wolf in sheep's clothing.

I can't but help think about the darkest hour film, Winston trying to convince his own party and people from others that we are in a war situation.

You can't negotiate with a tiger when it's got you it's it's mouth.

I think it's time to stop wasting time on no brexit, and just get on with making us ready to leave. I say that to all renainers in the house of commons.

As far as macron goes it sounds like a Tony Blair sound bite and nothing else. I cannot imagine or want too the ego and arrogance in that room when's they met.

The whole government needs to be put on a war footing. This is happening, now pull together and get on with it.

mellongoose

Thank you? I am not a lone voice in RL. It is extreme on here, and no one seems to like the pragmatists in the middle. I hope some sense will prevail eventually.

I agree about the leadership contest, assuming that happens who will take over? And how will this end?

If the leaders of various nations had been more supportive then May could have returned with some dignity, but it seems they were keen to aid to her departure, and the arrival of who exactly?