Macron's behaviour is despicable

[Snowymountainsalways]

I am a moderate remainer, I say that because I do feel we should respect the vote. I am not a remainer who think a second ref will help. A second ref won't help regardless of the outcome, because the other side will simply demand another one, and another and so it would go on indefinitely and it is utterly futile and pointless.

I had come to the conclusion that a good deal would be the best outcome in the end. However I am just appalled at the behaviour and language coming out of the EU, and particularly Macron.

I am now even thinking what is the point? What is the point in continuing with any 'deal'? They are clearly not remotely interested.

May (for all her faults, and she has many) should gather her dignity and call it a day. We were there in good faith, the chequers plan is not perfect but it was a starting point. I had hoped it would work. It would have offered a solution of sorts.

I have cancelled our holiday next year to France. I don't want to go anywhere so openly hostile, despite the fact we have been holidaying there for my entire living life. I can't support Macron's comments that were both needlessly humiliating and rude to our prime minister.

Thoughts?

@Snowymountainsalways

Oh dont get me wrong. Me neither. It was like a slap in the face and my world shattered so i had to rebuild a life sonewhere else.

But i loath the brexiters who voted that way and now are upset that the European in the Union are bot bending over.
Take your responsibility and assume tge consequences if a poor forsight.

I m gone and am laughing.

It's not surprising though. We have no negotiating power with the EU at all. And never have when it come to Brexit. We need a deal not the EU

@lydialunch7

Why is it stupid? Is it more stupid than demanding another vote until you get the result you want?

Thanks WeLoveFLowers I wish you had some enlightenment on that...I was holding out faint hope .

OP joined (very prolifically) yesterday. Just saying

I too have wondered where all these new contributors to the Brexit debate have suddenly appeared from today. It's interesting to have some new insights on the forum - well it will be once we get past the usual Brexit slogans. I think there has only been one comment about 'what would Labour do?' and 'Y2K' has yet to appear (it turned up on the other Brexit thread this morning), but we've had most of the rest.

As for what the people on the ground in Europe think - I run a pan-European company. We have relocated from the UK to elsewhere in the EU, although I'm still based in the UK until there is final clarity about where I can and cannot live after Brexit. Reading various European newspapers, there is a general theme that May had already dug herself a hole with Chequers and that in Salzburg she jumped in with both feet. The 'man/woman on the Salzburg trolleybus' has no view one way or another. Brexit will have little effect on their lives - a view that I hear most places I go to in Europe.

Yes we live in London and lots of our friends (EU citizens) are worried about their future, they have made homes here. How are they supposed to feel after yesterday? The collapse of the deal is really bad news.
We also have tons of people here working because realistically they can't get a job closer to home, accepted you have a point when it comes to youth unemployment across EU. Our EU citizens need reassurance that this is all going to work out okay. How can they feel that now?

I’m starting to think it was her plan all along to expose the Brexit lie for what it is

I hope you are right.

We're talking here about a serious international treaty that people depend on and which works due to lots of very delicate but robust work and compromise on all sides

It is a requirement of the GFA that the UK and Ireland are both EU members so I still don't understand how the referendum was even allowed.

By the way I certainly didn't join yesterday! I have had to change to my new email address :) Many on here will recognise me, I accept you don't! :)

Perking

Ummm I’m not a new joiner to mumsnet (have changed name in the past though) and English is my first language. I am British but was born in Australia. My husband and children are British born and raised.

Not really following what you are insinuating...?

Snowymountainsalways you're delusional! I've been on MN for years, first joined when I was pregnant 8 years ago old chap

And no one on MN supports TM just because she's female, pretty fucking condescending, mysogonistic type of comment for anyone to make really.

The EU was always going to punish us for leaving, and make a reasonable deal impossible. There are other countries who are less committed to 'the project' than France and Germany in particular, and they need to make it difficult for the UK to ensure other countries dont try to follow suit.

SheGotBetteDavisEyes

Sorry to disappoint there!!

Just re-read my 11.57 post and can’t for the life of me follow what is interesting about my language!

Havanananana We travel extensively and while I accept it is not your experience. We have been asked over and over again in every country (In side and outside the EU) about Brexit. It is an opening line as an ice breaker in many meetings and conversations we have had.

Even in the middle east for the last few weeks it has been all over their papers and headline news (and has been for years since it started pretty much) This idea that nobody cares is misleading, because there is a lot of interest.

It was clear before and is even clearer now that leaving the EU is going to fuck the UK over massively, especially the most vulnerable citizens, that The peace process in Ireland is going to collapse most likely leading to the days of the troubles again.

The thing is that the situation in NI is utterly changed now to how it was before the peace process. After Brexit nearly the entire population of NI are still potential EU citizens. A huge proportion of whom have already ensured that citizenship. The EU is not going to stand by while a massive enclave of it's population lives in a war zone. They won't let a foreign government ignore and mistreat their citizens. If there is any hint of the 'troubles' (I hate that euphemism for what was in actual fact a guerrilla war and life under military control) returning, the EU will be stepping straight in and the UK will come out very, very badly. And no matter what sort of noises The Donald might be making about supporting the UK over the EU, no US president can politically survive any stand against Ireland. (I mean economic sanctions not military intervention.)

Brexit is lunacy even without NI to consider. With the NI situation, the UK is like a baby playing with matches.

This idea that nobody cares is misleading, because there is a lot of interest

About two weeks after the referendum I went to Germany and a lot of people were interested, and although they thought it was sad, they thought we had to honour the result of the referendum in the interests of democracy. However, I think most people assumed at that point that we'd settle into an EEA relationship and most things would continue largely as normal - both for them and us.

The fact that crashing out of the EU without a deal is even being considered is just horrific and not something I could even conceive of back in 2016.

The EU was always going to punish us for leaving, and make a reasonable deal impossible. There are other countries who are less committed to 'the project' than France and Germany in particular, and they need to make it difficult for the UK to ensure other countries dont try to follow suit. That's about the size of it.

The collapse of the deal is really bad news.

How could it be a collapse when it was a deal that the rest of the EU had been making clear for a long time WAS NOT EVEN ON THE TABLE?!?

The EU is a rules based institution. The GFA is an international treaty to be adhered to. The UK was arrogant enough to think it could bend these things to its will.

*About two weeks after the referendum I went to Germany and a lot of people were interested, and although they thought it was sad, they thought we had to honour the result of the referendum in the interests of democracy. However, I think most people assumed at that point that we'd settle into an EEA relationship and most things would continue largely as normal - both for them and us.

The fact that crashing out of the EU without a deal is even being considered is just horrific and not something I could even conceive of back in 2016*

Yup that is my point entirely. The idea that any deal is going to work in any capacity has just expired. Our friends in Germany must be looking on and wondering wtf? As we all are. Nothing is now going to continue as normal and we are collectively staring at hard brexit.

I hope someone somewhere gets a grip before it is too late.

The EU set their red lines from the beginning. In our arrogance we thought that they would bend over backwards to offer us a deal but all the way through they stuck to their red lines. We are now angry because the EU didn't give in over their fundamental principles of the European Union.

If you travel extensively then "cancelling your holiday in France" next year is hardly a grand gesture is it.

How dare he stand up for his country and the EU that he is a member of. Disgraceful.

How could it be a collapse when it was a deal that the rest of the EU had been making clear for a long time WAS NOT EVEN ON THE TABLE?!?
The EU should not have misled the UK team then. It was the EU that asked for proposals. It was the EU that said it wanted a good deal for everyone. Do you suppose that the commission, Merkel etc were lying?

maxthemartian He hasn't said anything that isn't true and you are cutting off your nose to spite your face by cancelling your trip to France. You also don't sound like a remainer

This.