Macron's behaviour is despicable

[Snowymountainsalways]

I am a moderate remainer, I say that because I do feel we should respect the vote. I am not a remainer who think a second ref will help. A second ref won't help regardless of the outcome, because the other side will simply demand another one, and another and so it would go on indefinitely and it is utterly futile and pointless.

I had come to the conclusion that a good deal would be the best outcome in the end. However I am just appalled at the behaviour and language coming out of the EU, and particularly Macron.

I am now even thinking what is the point? What is the point in continuing with any 'deal'? They are clearly not remotely interested.

May (for all her faults, and she has many) should gather her dignity and call it a day. We were there in good faith, the chequers plan is not perfect but it was a starting point. I had hoped it would work. It would have offered a solution of sorts.

I have cancelled our holiday next year to France. I don't want to go anywhere so openly hostile, despite the fact we have been holidaying there for my entire living life. I can't support Macron's comments that were both needlessly humiliating and rude to our prime minister.

Thoughts?

I don't think what played out yesterday was a reflection of the true feeling on the ground

I live in France and I can tell you what the true feeling on the ground is regarding Brexit.

It's about 1% "lol" and 99% "we really couldn't give a shit".

We can't just ignore the vote

Why not? It was clear before and is even clearer now that leaving the EU is going to fuck the UK over massively, especially the most vulnerable citizens, that The peace process in Ireland is going to collapse most likely leading to the days of the troubles again.

Why can’t we just say “right folks, we fucked up and lied to you. Brexit is not a possibility for the UK right now, we shall revisit the idea in 50 years time”?.

Brexit is the choice of the British people. It’s a decision that was pushed by people who believed in an easy solution.

With Brexit, and I say it with the utmost respect for the British people, we have demonstrated that those who said they could do easily without Europe, that everything is going to be alright, are liars.

It’s also true they left the day after the vote so they didn’t have to manage it

I don't see anything "despicable" here.

whistl
Ah yes, Britian knows best what good little old Ireland should do. All you're missing there is a pat on the head.

Guess what? We'd much rather align ourselves with a block of 26 neighbours than isolate ourselves with a country that has historically treated us like shit.

“You’ve been sold a lie” is the most pathetic case against continuing with Brexit.

Every democratic vote in the history of the world involved being sold a lie. Hell, every debate ever had involves at least the selling of a half truth.

There were two sides in the Brexit debate. If the remain side was unable to convince their side that lies were being sold, then that’s their failing. That’s what democracy is, two groups are given a period of time to make their case and the we vote. If one side messes up, it’s on them, not a case for a revoke.

I’m a remainder. I voted remain. If they vote again I will vote leave on democratic principles alone.

The UK has always, always behaved like the spoilt child that the rules don't apply to, in relation to the EU. I remember thinking that when Major did Maastricht. It was all "hurrah I've got special conditions for us". I never saw why we should be entitled to that, but it seems many people think we automatically should.

@HPFA

David Davis, Michael Gove and Liam Fox have all made clear that we are going to break the terms of any agreement we make with the EU.

Last December David Davis couldn't wait to get off the plane home to tell everyone that the agreement he'd just signed up to wouldn't be honoured. Why shouldn't Macron mention the word 'liars'?

Britain will be able to negotiate wonderful trade agreements immediately with every other country in the world
£350million a week for the NHS
Britain will cherry-pick the best bits of the EU, and leave the rest
Britain can have its cake and eat it
The government has done over 50 in-depth studies about the impact of Brexit on every aspect of the British economy

Lies, lies and more lies.

Revote not revoke!

We are gone now and have brilliantly managed our own brexit from the UK. I am looking forward to the entertainement that next March will be

I am glad you are finding it entertaining. Many of my french friends do not share your excitement and enthusiasm for the UK departure.

We can't just ignore the vote

Since the Brexit that seems to be happening looks absolutely nothing like the kind of Brexit the leavers promised, we seem to be respecting the letter of the vote but not the spirit of it, so yes, we would be better off ignoring it altogether.

Has anyone seen a clip of the press conference where Macron spoke?
I have seen a few, slightly varying quotes of his words in French and English, and am curious as to what he actually said.
If he spoke the words below, as quoted in a few sources, he is very clearly not referring to May, the nation or anyone other than "those same people" who promise it'll be easy and who chickened out the day after the referendum rather than deal with their mess. The use of tenses is interesting...

« Le Brexit est le choix qu’ont fait les Britanniques, poussés par ceux qui promettaient des solutions faciles. Le Brexit nous dit une chose : il démontre que ceux qui veulent nous convaincre qu’on peut facilement se passer de l’Europe, que tout ira très bien et que cela leur rapportera beaucoup d’argent sont des menteurs », a-t-il martelé. « Ces mêmes personnes ont disparu le lendemain [du référendum] pour ne pas avoir à gérer tout cela. »

I can't get my head round the idea of a second referendum
Would it also apply to general elections?
Yes,
every four or five years we get to vote to undo the last cockup.
It is called DEMOCRACY

Ireland is not going to leave the EU. Support for membership is over 90%. Why would Ireland want to join the UK when it has spent 800 years trying to free itself from it? Such arrogance.

Ultimately I thought they were friends.

You sound so naïve, OP.

I can't get my head round the idea of a second referendum. So if I vote X, but Y win (by no matter how small a margin), then Y win.

A second referendum would allow people tovote on which deal they want, so that they have a chance to reject a disastrous no-deal exit. Since I'm pretty sure nobody voted for that in the first place.

“I think what May actually wants is to do right by the UK and her party, and go down in history as the PM who managed to do the impossible and steer the country through this nightmare.”

Actually, she strikes me as someone who wants to throw the entire country under a bus, for generations to come- for the short-term power of the Tory party, and her job.

She knows it’s madness. We all do. She could call a second referendum, and save us from this mess- but she won’t because it’ll make the Tories look weak at the next election.

Ireland leave the EU? Wtf - why would it?

How about "you've been illegally sold a lie" then?

The difference between a general election is that the result lasts 5 years tops.

The referendum was advisory and extremely badly planned. No way should such a small majority have been the decider - even had it gone the other way. It was not a democratic process.

GhostofFrankGrimes 👏

But that's Brexiteers for you.

I want to know what you would do to fix it.

We need an extension to Article 50 so we can negotiate an agreement similar to Norway. We should stop acting as if it's the majority of Leavers who need to be satisfied when it's the majority of the country that matters.

Above all, we need to have some political leaders putting the country first. Fat chance.

OP joined (very prolifically) yesterday. Just saying.

My goodness me, Mookatron, you asTONish me.

Not.

as a woman I can not not flame May

Why not? As a raging feminist, I am fortunately not gagged from speaking fact: her policies and speeches have variously broken laws (previous and current government roles), been morally reprehensible (too many examples to mention) and she lies like there is no tomorrow (literally every time she speaks, she lies, it must be exhausting!). But you know that. There are excellent female politicians in every political party in this nation, but she's the absolute dregs. And I'm being kind.

I wouldn't read anything into comments in the press. All sides are massively spinning and posturing to get themselves the best deal. They have one thing in common that they all want to make a deal though. No-one wants no deal apart from the Tory headbangers, and they are not the ones round the table.

Ireland leave the EU? Wtf - why would it?

if you read that, then you read the reason too.