Second week at school - teacher made daughter cry...

[MissRoadie]

I'm really upset and not sure if I am overreacting. My daughter, 4, just started reception - only in the second week. She came home yesterday saying the teacher made her cry because she told her off because her letters and numbers 'were wrong'. Poor little mite gets her 'a's the wrong way round but we have always told her she is amazing at writing and never corrected her.

Anyway, DD totally refused to go to School this morning. Started a huge fight with me on my way out the door and is currently begging DH not to take her in. Up until yesterday she loved going to her new school.
AIBU to ask the teacher WTF?

I’ve taught reception. There are two possibilities here. Either your DD’s teacher is a dick (sorry but there you have it!) or s/he said something that really, really discouraged and upset your daughter inadvertently. Either way, talking to the teacher is essential. Either they will say “I’m so sorry she was so upset” and seek to do something to encourage this tiny child or she won’t. If she is a dick, then complaining may or may not help, but making a child cry on their second week and feel they can’t write is definitely NOT okay nor what any kind teacher (which is what you should expect as standard!) would do on purpose.

I really don’t know why some previous posters have given you a hard time.

Is your child at a private school? In reception the most important thing certainly for the first few months is that children get used to being in a school environment.its wonderful that she can write but really the teacher wouldnt expect this at her age.I would certainly approach the teacher but its early days so be careful.but you need to build a good relationship with her teacher and if your child is upset a good teacher would want to know as your child wont settle if she is worried.it maybe that your child is a sensitive little girl and this needs then to be addressed.when encouraging her work try to be very specific when encouraging her otherwise it is known as giving empty praise.so for example if she draws an "a" point out the shape of the body of the letter and tell her she has drawn a good shape .draw yours next to it.if she wants she can copy yours.say this is how mummy does it and talk her through it.start at the top and we go round back up then dow with a little curly tail.she is too young for critisism of her writing.never do this as it will knock her confidence.limit praise to specifics so it is relevant.such as you kicked that ball really hard,you have used really bright colours in your picture.overpraising which is vague such as that was wonderful or you are amazing has less meaning but she doesnt at 4 need to be told her letters are wrong

I'm sorry but your job is to help your child, not tell them they're perfect. If she got her a's the wrong way round and wasn't ever corrected, she's going to look jolly silly when it comes to her going to college/uni/a job.

You should have helped her in the first place. I imagine she cried because she's only 4 and thought she was doing alright.

Yabu. Sorry.

@CatchIt

What makes you think all the teachers and educational experts are wrong and you know better?

@FullOfJellyBeans I don't recall saying they were wrong? Only that the OP should have corrected her dd.

I don't feel that you should set your child up to fail by letting them think every thing they do is right.

I have no idea how the teacher reacted, in all honesty, I'd be incredibly surprised to hear that the OP's daughter was shouted at. Until the OP confirms that, I stand by what I said.

Ffs! She is 4 years old! Can’t believe the harsh comments, lack of empathy and judgemental attitudes from so many of the sanctimonious voices on here. You are definitely not being unreasonable. Your little girl is not even compulsory school age yet so you are legally within your rights to a) remove her until the term following her 5th birthday so she can just enjoy being a little girl and relax and play for another year, or b) you can send her part time and choose your own hours (whatever the school may say to the contrary). She, and you, have the right to be spoken to with respect, treated with understanding, listened to and valued. No teacher should be pressurising, intimidating, frightening or bullying anyone, particularly small children. My suggestion would be to remove her immediately and let her regain her confidence and security with you and ignore the negative Mumsnetters and focus on the supportive, understanding ones! You sound like a great mum by the way but heaven help the poor offspring of the judgemental “holier than thous!”

Why didnt you correct her before thats what normal parents do. Her as were the wrong way around a caring parent gently showing her the correct way. Seriously op this teacher done you a favour if you cant correct your daughter.

OP My DD has also just started Reception. She is struggling with corrections which make her lose confidence. I struggle because I don't know what went on and have to rely on her unreliable version of events. I work FT so she is in wrap around every day and I don't get to speak to the teacher at the end of the day, and the start is too busy to have more than a 20 second chat.

What I am trying to do is to give my DD the confidence to deal with things that upset her without expecting me to wade in. I encourage her to tell me and try to work out with her why the teacher corrected her (to help her improve) and that the teacher was being kind to tell her what is wrong and how to do it better.

If you are like me, the real issue is the loss of power we used to have to advocate for our kids and to enable them to be independent. With every fibre I want to go in and find out what happened, but you just can't. It is so hard, but by all accounts it is just a short phase of re adjustment, for parents and children alike!

Only that the OP should have corrected her dd.

Which is exactly what the educational experts and teachers tell you not to do with a 4 year old. So you're saying they're wrong and you know better. I wondered what made you think so.

@londonrach

No OP shouldn't correct a four year old just learning to write. Every teacher will tell you just encourage them to hold a pen, make shapes and try some letters if they're able.

Bloody hell do people start telling one year olds that they should stop wobbling around when they walk -otherwise how will they learn?

I'll have to hide the stupidity on this thread. All the teachers have said OP is doing the right thing and loads of people ignore that and think they magically know better.

You’re getting a lot of stick. It is not the teachers role to criticise. It is the teachers role to encourage your child to learn in s positive manner. The teacher clearly did not do this otherwise your child would not be so upset. I am 100% confident that the teacher could have used a different strategy to encourage your child. I doubt she was shouted and possibly not told off but the teacher definitely failed on this occasion.

@londonrach and @CatchIt

No. Every teacher or anyone who knows anything about EY will tell you you're absolutely wrong. Almost everything written by the average 4 year old will be wrong. Poorly formed letters, spelled wrong, mirror imaging letters or entire words. If you correct them (however much you accompany it with praise) it will be a constant barrage of correction. This will simply serve to discourage the child from writing: It's simply not developmentally appropriate at age 4.

You encourage them to pick up a pen and do whatever they can with it.

I very much doubt that the teacher meant to tell OP's DD off - probably a misunderstanding. However the advice given here is very obviously stupid. Children do not need to be taught to write before entering school - they often don't have the fine motor control for it. When they first learn to write you encourage whatever they do. Handwriting and proper letter formation happens later.

Of course her writing isn’t perfect she’s four. Of course her Mum should tell her she is amazing. Yes you could gently correct her but you’re hardly setting her up to fail as others have said. In fact your setting her up to have amazing confidence and to be willing to try

I was reading some interesting research that suggests over-praising children is actually detrimental to their development in a number of ways, in particular resilience. So telling children they are "amazing" when actually they are simply doing what is expected of them, or performing something adequately, is not such a good idea. If they are working hard at something, but not quite cracking it- you should praise the effort- "it's great that you're working really hard on that" and offer assistance as to how to improve- then praise any improvement. As a PP said- praise the work not the child. Only give effusive praise for something which a genuinely amazing achievement (and that can differ between children depending on their specific abilities and difficulties).

The theory is that if we tell children that doing what is simply expected of them, or mediocre performance, is "amazing", or give prizes "for everyone on every occasion", then they start to think that basic levels of behaviour/effort/performance is "amazing" and they don't have to put more effort in. Some children will have too much confidence and being entitled, others have low self-esteem because they never quite reach the level they feel they should.

Another way to look at it is if you over praise children for being clever/amazing/talented they may then start shying away from hard challenges that might disprove the idea that they’re clever/amazing/talented. So it’s is actually (and perhaps counter-intuitively) not a good thing to do whereas praising a child for effort is a safe thing to do because a child is always in control of how much effort it puts in. Also, the children learn that improvements come through hard work/ skills can be learnt and intelligence is not fixed- they are therefore more likely to make significant improvements.

ShatnersWig go and have yourself a glass of Wine and calm down your language is disgusting you have anger issues.

I’ve taught reception. There are two possibilities here. Either your DD’s teacher is a dick (sorry but there you have it!) or s/he said something that really, really discouraged and upset your daughter inadvertently. Either way, talking to the teacher is essential. Either they will say “I’m so sorry she was so upset” and seek to do something to encourage this tiny child or she won’t. If she is a dick, then complaining may or may not help, but making a child cry on their second week and feel they can’t write is definitely NOT okay nor what any kind teacher (which is what you should expect as standard!) would do on purpose

Totally agree, also from a primary teacher. I'm also astonished that there should be any expectation of new starters forming numbers or letters correctly - we assume no knowledge, other than some children maybe being able to have a go at writing their names. At this stage in the term, reception teachers are usually busy carrying out baseline assessments, which is about finding out what children can do, not telling them off if they can't do it.

It's not about your DD getting her letter the wrong way round, the issue is her reaction to being corrected. The refusal to go to school needs to be nipped in the bud now, your DD is going to be corrected many times through her school life and you need to help her to build resilience.

Thank heavens for the arrival of so many sane, lovely reception teachers on this thread. The poor OP was getting such a kicking from the uber-competitive on this thread.

(My DS is dyslexic. He still bursts into tears over homework/stuff he's got wrong. My job is to pick up the pieces and rebuild his confidence, not ignore him in some crazy misguided attempt to toughen him up.)

OP, go in and talk to the teacher in an open, non-confrontational way - "DD was upset, and I want to know how you and I can both support her."

nobody want their kid to cry. You have to support wee one,but if you allow rying to be a tool,you'll probli suffer.tell her you understand she was upset she didnt do it quite right and help her try again....my ds2 teacher told me he does back to front d,b,s ,p is upside down...i said "yes,i noticed"she then said when she pointed it out-and he said "your must know what i'm trying to write,I can maybe try harder because youre lovely when you smile. he is outstandingly well spoken and there is no cheek or malice,nor insenserity in his logic. I told her we'll practice at home(reluctant homework issuing policy shite at moment. cant have it all ways.

it doesn't matter why she is struggling.even if she is over sensitive or just more unable to cope with critism than others.this isn't a blame thing.some kids are like that and some are horribly sensitive to things.we should be even more on their side and be empathetic.
if we aren't there for the kids that take things more harshly or to heart than we are leading them to a future of feeling wrong and many mental health problems and unable to feel they can get help.
therefore of course go to the teacher.not in an angry way.but so you can work together to see how to help the child.there are many ways to get this sorted and that means working together.
maybe the teacher does need to ajust how she talks to the dd because she is sensitive to getting things wrong at the moment.
doing this.and reacting to her needs will only then serve her,build her confidence and she then will be able to see her worth and how she can handle things.why push someone further down that cant cope.no,it should be how to help her adapt and grow

Ffs people, she’s 4!!! She shouldn’t even be at school let alone taught how to write second week of school. At that age attempting to write is good enough, gain confidence and actually enjoy it. It’s all about the approach. I never corrected my 4 year old when he made a mistake as he was just starting, getting the hang of holding a pen etc. He’s fine and a year on loving it as he had time to enjoy it. Feel sorry for your kids and the expectations you have. Living in the dark ages.

And OP, she’s 4 not 14. Don’t be afraid to let the teacher know she’s been refusing to go to school for that reason whether she’s exaggerating or not. You’ll find a way to not sound like ‘that parent’. You know her the best.

Like anyone gives a fly fuck what some randoms husband of mumsnet thinks

Awwlookatmybabyspider - I suppose that someone who posts on MN asking for opinions does.

You’re quite a piece of work, aren’t you? Telling off = shouting is an awful way to parent and awful way to interact with anyone. I’m sorry you were brought up in such a nasty environment - that does explain your aggression though, and your inability to talk to people who have different opinions without feeling personally attackef. Please don’t bring your kids up like that.

*if you over praise children for being clever/amazing/talented they may then start shying away from hard challenges that might disprove the idea that they’re clever/amazing/talented.“

Totally agree with this. DD is living proof of it. She’s clever, and she knows it because every other blighter tells her so. We’ve tried to temper it by reminding her she still needs to try, but unfortunately she has got into the way or not wanting to be pushed outside her comfort zone. She hates trying new things in case she can’t do it and if she does try and isn’t automatically brilliant at it she gives up.

I work with foundation children and they are just exhausted by the 2nd week! It’s a lot for them to deal with! I teach them all in one afternoon and you would not believe how many cry, and what they cry about. Anything from ‘the person next to me farted’, all the way too, ‘my feet are hot’. It’s just a big shock going from constantly being told they are amazing and doing nothing wrong, to being told, probably in a lovely way, that they have to do certain things at certain times and hat she has written the letter around the wrong way. Just try and encourage her that they are going to do lots of lovely things and that she wouldn’t want to miss out. As soon as she gets there she will be fine!

God there’s some horrible people on this thread.
OP, go to the school and calmly explain to the teacher that your daughter is upset at home and her attitude to attending school has changed and ask how she thinks your dd is doing.
Starting school is such a huge upheaval for such young children. your daughter is probably just feeling overwhelmed by it. She will get into the routine soon I’m sure

OP, there are always children crying at school drop off in the first weeks of Reception, clinging to their parents and refusing to go in - even if the teacher is the nicest person on earth. Could the letter formation incident be just an excuse for not wanting to go to school generally?

To be honest, I think that teaching children letter formation at the start of Reception is way too early - mine didn’t start till Year 1, when they were much more ready, better coordinated etc. They are expected to form their letters correctly at the beginning of Year 2, but even then if they slip it’s not a big deal - although they do get corrected obviously. In most continental Europe kids start school at the age of six and don’t start writing till then, and they are not exactly behind the British kids by the age of 7.

But I also think that starting Reception might be a good time to talk to your daughter and explain that nobody, including grown-ups, can do everything perfectly, that we go to school to learn and become better at things (including writing) and that teachers are there to help.

If you talk to the teacher, don’t go ballistic, explain that your daughter is not YET used to criticism, that you wouldn’t expect her to write correctly at the age of four, and together try to come up with ways to get her used to constructive criticism and to encourage her to learn. Is the teacher a newbie or someone with experience?