Father now wants to be called Daddy, CAFCAS involved.

[BedloeIsland]

3 yo multicultural child has a UK Father and non-UK royal maternal line. As a show of unity (following DV, other acts and absence from childs life) the tribal leaders agreed that the royal childs Father be given a royal tribal title - Papa followed by his Name ie Papa Xxxx. He was fine with this until recently, now he suddenly wants to be called Daddy as my boyfriend of 2 1/2 years has a child who lives with us and my child has started calling my boyfriend Daddy (and me by my first name as that is what the other child does). Child has about 10 people the child calls Daddy and 4 people the child calls Mummy (these are mostly people at nursery / other friends parents). These words do not carry the adult meanings to the child and are possibly translated as male career and female career.

The Father has kicked off and involved CAFCAS as he now wants to be called Daddy not Papa Xxxx. He has accused me of saying my boyfriend is her 'real Daddy' but Child would not have any concept of this idea (and I never said this).

CAFCAS said that we live in England and have to follow English customs and that he is now to be known as Daddy and I have to explain this to a barely 3 yo and enforce it... but I think

1. This is unreasonable as child can't even grasp the concept of 1 Mummy let alone this Daddy dilemma
2. The disrespect and dishonour to the tribe. It would be like him dancing naked in front of your Queen then kicking off when he would no longer be invited to key cultural events in childs life. Previously when he was happy to be called Papa Xxxx he would be on the top table etc.. now he won't even be allowed in the door.
3. The real issue is he is jealous of my boyfriend.

Can the courts force me to start calling him Daddy? and why is this not seen by CAFCAS as a positive attempt to bond the different cultures?

I'm not certain I've followed this correctly, but am I right in saying that

1. The child's mother (you) has a royal tribal line
2. The child father consequently has the right to be called Papa xxxx
3. The child calls you by your first name

4.the child calls your BF 'Daddy' 5.you reside in the UK

1. The child's father is not from a tribal background.
2. The child refers to many other adults using the names Mummy and Daddy

Assuming this is all correct, I can understand why you want the child to keep referring to us father as Papa X. But I can also understand him wanting to be called Daddy. And I think his wishes override your loyalty to the tribal background. If the child is being brought up in a western culture, then I think it would be confusing for him when he gets to school if his classmates have a very different range of terms for their parent.

He should understand and celebrate his heritage. But I think it might be harmful if he doesn't also adopt customs and habits country he lives in and the culture his father is from.

There is no reason he can't be both Papa in public and Daddy in private at home when staying with him (if he does). I would challenge it on cultural grounds given there is interaction with the relevant culture abroad and without the formal Papa then he is diminished abroad.

Also Papa is not unknown in higher circles in this country, now s Father, Dad, Pop or Daddy as a name for at home.

Is the child also billingual? Could you use the language to differentiate so Papa in Culturral Language and Daddy in English.

Having said that the other culture also needs to work with you as this child is not 100% their culture in the same way he is not 100% English. I actually think that which country he is brought up in shouldn't make a difference - he is a blend and so rules about this need to be more fluid.

What pp have said, but I think you’re out of order to let your son call another man daddy.

So, your ex is British, and wants to be known to his own child by the usual name for a British father?

Fine by me. I’m not sure how meaningful you expect your own cultural heritage to be to your ex in all honesty. I don’t know how important it’s gonna be to him to be welcome at your family’s metaphorical table years after you’ve split up.

Also, as your child gets older, it’s going to be far less confusing for her to be using different cultural terms for each side of her family. This doesn’t have to be an issue.

*going to get far less confusing

I don't see how your culture should have anything to do with your ex, he's English and should not be forced to follow your customs

I think your child calling multiple people including your new boyfriend Daddy is strange and will cause massive confusion later on if they continue to grow up in this country

A three year old should be able to grasp the fact that they have one 1 mummy! Do the have SEN?

When DC get to school, assuming you stay in the UK, its going to become very clear to them what "mummy" and "daddy" mean and its going to be very confusing to them to be applying that term to lots of adults, surely?

What has your child been calling you up until now? Surely you've been mummy and explained that he only has one?

Why can't your Ex retain the papa term as well as being called Daddy in everyday parlance?

This is a very strange royal dilemma 👑

If child already calls ten people daddy why would it make a difference? I think your seeing drama where there isn’t drama

I’m not sure how meaningful you expect your own cultural heritage to be to your ex in all honesty. I don’t know how important it’s gonna be to him to be welcome at your family’s metaphorical table years after you’ve split up

So children with parents from different cultures should not learn about, be included in, or otherwise participate in activities which explore and celebrate both parent’s cultures? What you want is for them to just pursue the cultural norm of whatever country they live in and that’s that. It says something about the integrity and decency of the family concerned that despite problems in the relationship, an ex partner has been welcomed and awarded whatever accolades are appropriate for this child’s father.

Surely it is the child’s responsibility to call the people in his life by names he considers appropriate?

Soooo... your ex was abusive towards you and your tribe responded to this by offering him a royal title? Sounds about right...

Kids are very simplistic, explain that we now will now call Papa Daddy, use it when you speak of him. As the child gets older you can explain why he is also called Papa for 'royal' reasons.

Is there a wedding involved and how much will it cost the tax payer?

I was talking about the ex ohreally- not the child.

It’s highly likely he doesn’t give a monkeys what name his ex-PILs want him to be known by. Who would?

So this man was violent towards you and you left him. Your tribal elders then conferred a title on him as a reconciliatory act. (This in itself is hard to swallow - a man commits violence against a woman of the royal line, and as a result, is honoured.)

He however, rejects the title. Or accepts it but does not want his child to call him by that title. Which one is more accurate?

If he rejects the title, then I can see how that would feel like an affront to the tribe. But really it just shows that the tribe cannot make a 'bad' man good... the reconciliatory act of conferring a title might have worked locally, if the man shared the same cultural background, but if the man is of British culture, then being honoured for committing DV is sure not going to make him grow more respectful. In contrast, it seems to have taught him that he can get away with disrespect and is now taking it a step further by trying to force you into using terms of his choosing. He is exerting control.

If he is happy with the title, but does not want his child to call him by this title, then I can understand his perspective - I would not choose for my child to call me by my title. My name, mummy, mum, mother, the equivalents in our other language, but not my title!

Regarding Cafcass, I do not think they can dictate how your child is to call their father. At most, they can say how you are to refer to him when speaking to your child; e.g. you must not call him 'the bastard' as you would be alienating your child which is wrong.
I think you would be ok if you would refer to your ex as 'your father' when speaking to your child, which is factually correct and in line with British language and culture. Use Papa xxx when talking to members of your tribe, but always 'your father' when adressing your child. It is then up to your child if they want to use a term of endearment such as daddy - you cannot stop them, your ex cannot force them.

I feel for you - your ex is violent towards you, your tribe responds by honouring him, your ex uses this to further exert control over you, a slap in the face this time to both you and your tribe, and the authorities give him right.
And who cares for you in all this? I hope your current partner is a good one.

Bedloe Island is the former name of Ellis Island, where the Statue of Liberty lives.

Just saying.

‘Royal’ 🙄 yeah ok. Not exactly Queen Elizabeth is it?

Surely Daddy in private, Papa X in public. Therefore you won’t upset the ‘royals’

So your ex wants his child to call him Daddy when addressing him?
Seems reasonable?
Can his own child not call him whatever on earth suits them both, whilst retaining his title for public use? Why would that cause offence?

I can see his point, really. Whether your child grasps the true concept of mummy and daddy is irrelevant, no parent would want their young child calling another man/woman mummy or daddy.

It looks as though your ex agreed to the use of the tribal name assuming no other man would be called daddy. Now that they are, he's upset. You can see that surely? It means an awful lot.

CAFCAS now no longer want me to say you are going to see Papa Xxxx today they instead want me to say you are going to see Daddy today. This means that I can't use Fathers royal title in day to day life with child. If I was allowed to do this, what he refers to himself in his own home would not be a problem.
The child is bilingual, and this is a great argument. I should be able to say Papa Xxxx in sentences in our language.
I grew up outside the UK and am myself of mixed native and UK blood so have seen the way the cultures can be successfully blended, but the CAFCAS worker assigned to us appears to have zero cultural understanding. Thank you for your suggestion.

With regards to the domestic violence and in return for this him being given a title

Honestly I don't think the royal tribe part is necessary to the story. The fact is you ex was happy to be called Papa x because in your culture you didn't use the word Daddy. Naturally he is now pretty pissed to hear his child calling another man Daddy. This wouldn't be a problem if you did not live somewhere where people will naturally assume that means your boyfriend is his father.

I also think the fact he does not understand Daddy and Mummy is going to cause some issues when he goes to school, he's likely going to be very confused as to peoples roles.

Out of curiosity what does he call you, and how would you feel if he began calling you Mummy when he hears all his peers doing it?

The child's daddy wants to be called daddy because basically, due to the fact he's English, he is his daddy.

Just keep correcting your DC and eventually they'll realise that's what he's called.