When did we become ok with the burka?

[Banana8080]

In my childhood (80s90s) I remember being sad some Muslim women were pressured not to show their full faces in public ie become invisible. These days much more focus on a women right to choose aka wear the full vail, even those who are possible under pressure.

When/why did this change happen?

A lot more women make a personal choice to wear it now and there's a focus on making sure that those who do are free to dress however they choose to, as well as making sure that those women who are pressured into wearing it have the necessary support to either take it off or get away from whoever is pressuring them.

Because many women do have agency over their own lives and make choices regardless of who agrees with it or not.

And those that don’t have the choice over their own lives? Where’s the movement gone to support them?

I don’t think I even remember seeing Muslim women wearing veils back in the 90s.

Women should be able to choose to wear what they want. What’s wrong with that?

Why do you need to ask when did we become ok with the Burka?
As if wearing a Burka is a bad thing

It hasn't gone anywhere. There's just also a voice for women to have the freedom to wear it if they want to. I'm one of those women and I'm extremely vocal in my own community on behalf of woman who didn't have any choice in the matter like I did.

Banana8080 there are still schemes and support out there for marginalised, vulnerable muslin women. Unless you live in an area with a larger Muslim population they're unlikely to be part of your daily life. It's the same thing either way though isnt it. Women should be supported to wear what they feel comfortable in.

In my childhood (80s90s) I remember being sad some Muslim women were pressured not to show their full faces in public ie become invisible

Where's your Daily Mail sad face then, OP?

And how did you know as a child the women you saw were pressured into it? Did you have the Shining?

Oh dear. Here comes the ninja thread. I don't see the need to wear burka in a western country where it is not the norm. The whole point is to wear burka so you do not bring attention to yourselves. (In an Arab country its a norm so they mingle well) Yet burka wearers in western countries stick out like a sore thumb thus creating the complete opposite reaction they supposedly claim they want. Plus it's not even a religious requirement, more of a personal statement. A hijab with an abaya (loose cloak) does the same job without the excessive attention being attracted in your direction. This thing about personal choice is ludicrous. A little precious if you ask me.

When we stopped accepting that we had to either hide or live the way middle class, Christian men wanted us too.

yesornoworld do you wear what makes you feel comfortable?

Why shouldn't other women have that right?

The Muslim women I know who wear a burkha or a hijab choose to, so I support their decision. That doesn’t mean I agree with women who are forced into it.

No one really has to see the need to wear something except for the person wearing it, surely? I wear mine as a personal, religious expression not so I don't attract attention. Either way, we kick and scream for personal choice except for when we don't like the choice being made

Either way, we kick and scream for personal choice except for when we don't like the choice being made

I totally agree.

Patriarchal tool of oppression, done so well women now praise it as a choice to wear it.

So what's the alternative? Ban them like other countries have and take away a woman's choice of what to wear completely? Tell her she is not allowed out in public wearing a veil, or face a fine? Force them to choose between the law and their religious/cultural beliefs?

And that's not oppression is it?

I respect personal choice but I also respect the need to integrate into the society you live in. Wearing a hijab which is a religious requirement is representing the religion. To ensure all hair is covered. Where as a burka is not an Islamic religious requirement. Therefore it is purely a personal statement. NOT a religious one.

This thing about personal choice is ludicrous. A little precious if you ask me.

Yes, personal autotomy is seriously overrated. Let's become a totalitarian state. But be careful, yesornoworld - it won't just be the Muslims affected. Stand up for miniorities bacause you may become a monority yourself some day in some way.

It's okay except in places you wouldn't be allowed a balaclava or crash helmet

@moominfan
And so what? There are slut walks in the US where women celebrate the taking back of the word and their freedom to express themselves sexually. If something began as a tool of oppression but some women have made the decision to reclaim and wear it by choice, and they're happy with that choice...what's the problem? The alternative is to oppress women by telling them what they can't wear as opposed to what they can wear. I honestly don't understand why people get so bothered by what other people wear.

Im ok with it because the people I know who wear it are ok with it. I work in a mainly Muslim school. A handful of parents wear it. When they want to speak to me they step inside and remove their veil. Not a problem at all. I don’t feel threatened, like they are hiding something or like they are oppressed.
I have no clue why people wouldn’t be ok with it. I have less of an issue with a burka than with the skin tight tracksuit I saw a young man wear today that clearly showed the outline of his penis and testicles.

A lot of the girls I grew up with have chosen to wear it. The younger generation more so. That is from my experience in an area where there is a dense Muslim population.

From what I see, they're now making their own choices and a lot of them opt for it.

I would say, my generation had to fight for the freedom to wear or not to where but we've paved the way to relax those rules for the younger generation.

Just like our generation have had to fight with the traditional elders about marriage. Again we have made it easier for the younger ones as we've softened the older generation who now accept they have to change with the times and with being brought up in a different environment far from our traditional homeland whereby the influences were different.

When we were growing up arranged marriages was the thing that was done. Then we grew up around people from different ethnic backgrounds that were dating and we were influenced and drawn to it. We began dating on the low and had to change the perception of our elders. It was difficult but now they accept it.

All of my younger cousins and extended family and friends are now free to choose who they marry.

Just like with the burka, we broke it down for us thus making it easier for the younger ones.

I married a white man and all hell broke loose. My sibling was able to marry her white husband with ease because I set the tone and broke the ice.

Then my neighbours followed in suit and it's just the norm to marry whoever now.

Again, that's only a reflection of what's happened in the area I live in. Can't speak for everyone.

Things changed, we moved with the time, people got used to it.

It seems that the people it tends to bother more is those who don't have an understanding and look at it far too intricately. When really it's just a matter of choice.

I'm more upset by children wearing religious garments them at increasingly younger ages, I saw toddler wearing a headscarf down to her waist a few weeks ago in Bristol. I generally don't agree though with parents pushing their religious beliefs on children.

It's my personal expression of my religion. Splitting hairs really. As I said, I wear the veil and I'm a very active member of my children's school community, my local community, I have great relationships with my (non Muslim) neighbours. I volunteer for an organisation and help women from all walks of life and my veil has never, ever been a barrier. It's really only a problem if people make it one. If I'm asked to lift it for security then I do so. I don't have it on in my passport or driving licence photos. There's a lot of hoo ha about nothing to be honest.

We see more women in niqab because Islam has become more fundamentalist worldwide since the 80s and Muslim women are covering up more all over now, including UK.

I wouldnt say we are ok with it, given the constant discussion over whether to ban it.

Note: it's rare to see an actual burqa, which is the entire body covered, not even a hole for the eyes. A niqab is the face covering, a hijab is the hair covering.