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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think women’s rights are actually bad for women

999 replies

crazydoglady6867 · 16/09/2018 08:05

I am sure I will get shot down for this but here goes:

I really think that women wanting and largely getting EQUALITY is the best thing that is happening in modern times. What I have an issue with is women wanting to be better than men, wanting more rights and with girls/women only groups sports events etc we are actually just segregating ourselves and making men feel ostracised in some situations which is making them feel they need to gain back this “power” they feel they should have over women.
I am in a bike group who have a ladies section and they are just recently going a bit OTT over the women riders and making them more inclusive than the men really, they have special ride outs for them but men are not allowed to have a male only one. Etc etc...

You can see where I am going with this, and I am happy to change my mind in how I feel if posters come up with a reasonable debate into why I am wrong here.

I want to be thought of as equal to my male counterparts I don’t feel I need to have special running races they can’t run in or special groups my son can’t join or special days to celebrate my gender.

I remember a sketch in the 70’s on the Two Ronnies with Diana Dors in it called “the worm has turned” and thinking yeah as if that will ever happen, well people I can honestly say I am getting a bit worried for our men.

I know MN has a good proportion of man haters but you can’t all be like that, am I really the only one who feels like this.

OP posts:

RedDogsBeg · 16/09/2018 20:19

What I have said, repeatedly, is if there are so many good men around and some of them must then by default be in positions of power and influence why are they not doing anything?

And here I disagree because there are men trying to do something - not enough admittedly but not none.

You slightly contradicted yourself Arturitis because you agreed with my first statement but can you give me some examples of men trying to do something? Particularly men in the position of power where those changes would impact the most?

POAlockdown · 16/09/2018 20:22

Still not the same. But keep trying.

WrongOnTInternet · 16/09/2018 20:22

It would trigger safeguarding rules. That would be the same for either sex. But I think we're getting sidetracked?

Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 20:24

@Elephantinacravat

The minimising of anything bad happening to a man. The attitude of aww diddums, poor love well try being a woman and put with x,y and z.

I'm not minimising anything that happens to women. Terrible things happen. But terrible things happen to men too.

Absolutely not on the same scale.

But why doesn't it matter if it's a man?

Why is it a joke? This is why men commit suicide, why men Can't talk about being raped, can't talk about their feelings - because they are laughed at, derided and have their feelings downplayed yes by other men but by women too.

And I don't see a defence in saying men do it to women all the time. Doesn't make it right for women to do it. Just as it doesn't make it right for men to do it to anyone either.

YeTalkShiteHen · 16/09/2018 20:26

I give up.

WrongOnTInternet · 16/09/2018 20:31

But what you are saying, loud and clear, is that it matters more when it happens to a man.

Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 20:33

Did he feel physically threatened by these girls? Fear they would sexually assault him?
No he didn't and neither did my daughter because they were basically little boys that said it and I was there.

And yes I know that was that time. And not all of the other times that things happen to women.

That's why when I was asked how they both felt about it I said it was difficult because in these examples I think my son felt worse but that isn't typical and I understand that. Just in these experiences that I have.

I'm Sorry that I don't have the stereotyped experiences that would validate all of your feelings.

My life experiences have been of men being more supportive to me than women. Obviously that biases my experience doesn't it? So men being supportive of my breast feeding - yes they were because these are my friends and family. The women negatively commenting were strangers, bar one female friend. I think that is quite typical though. I don't think many men would comment on a woman breast feeding. Lots of women think it's ok to criticize other women for how they gave birth or whether they breast feed or not.

Yet my experience apparently proves I'm a man.

YeTalkShiteHen · 16/09/2018 20:34

I think the same, it’s never acknowledging the vast numbers of women or children, it’s brushing that aside with a “but what about....”.

Whataboutery never gets us anywhere, because nobody is listening.

Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 20:34

But what you are saying, loud and clear, is that it matters more when it happens to a man.
And where have I said that?

Because I definitely don't think that.

karyatide · 16/09/2018 20:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WrongOnTInternet · 16/09/2018 20:35

Then why, in a thread asking about whether we need women's rights, have we been diverted into how hard men have it in comparison?

GoldenWonderwall · 16/09/2018 20:36

I just don’t think the calibre of gf is there these days. You’re not even trying. There’s too many cliches coming out too many times. The posters new to the thread who are oh so reasonable and just want to point out how nasty feminists are, are too transparent. The nonsensical arguments that veer all over the place are trying too hard to be real and some are verging on very obvious sealioning.

I’m very surprised that your son is a teacher arthuritis Did you not tell him how all the women in the playground will say he’s a massive peado and a simple rumour like this will go on his dbs forever and ruin his life? I mean, I know it’s only your life experience and not every man is surrounded by hordes of evil women trying to take him down, but you can’t be too careful can you?

Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 20:38

Whataboutery never gets us anywhere, because nobody is listening.
And this is exactly how I feel too.

Hardly anyone agreeing that bad things happening to men are bad.

When it's mentioned it's just dismissed with " well worse things happen to women".

I don't disagree that terrible things happen to women. It's absolutely shocking.

Does that make it ok for bad things to happen to men though?

YeTalkShiteHen · 16/09/2018 20:39

Does that make it ok for bad things to happen to men though?

NO! Show me anywhere anyone has said it is? But on a thread about women’s rights can we please, please stop fucking making it all about bloody men!

WrongOnTInternet · 16/09/2018 20:40

I just don’t think the calibre of gf is there these days.

Look, its quite simple Arthuritis. If men don't like male violence either, then let's see it stopped. The problem is that, due to male privilege, when a man wants something doing he looks for a woman to do it for him. We're telling you no, we're too busy defending ourselves.

Elephantinacravat · 16/09/2018 20:42

People are not minimising 'anything bad that happens to a man'.

They are laughing at men who get shitty because they think there are too many women in the 'Bodyguard' TV show, or who are outraged that a woman might campaign to get a single woman on the back of a ten pound note, or think its ridiculous that women might want equal representation in Parliament, because that means that 'women don't want equality, they want to be better than men'.

But while we are on the subject, who are the people who take the piss out of men of they dare to show their feelings? Is it women?

Women are always held to a higher standard than men anyway, which is why women are always expected to do all the leg work to create equality (whilst simultaneously being told that doing so is 'bad for women and men) and men are just expected to carry on what they are doing and not change unless they are 'forced' by women.

5bobaweek · 16/09/2018 20:42

But what you are saying, loud and clear, is that it matters more when it happens to a man.

And that women should take responsibility for stopping it apparently.

And that when women actually suffer on a widespread basis at the hands of men, we should always, always stop and think about the tiny, tiny number of men who may suffer at the hands of women.

Elephantinacravat · 16/09/2018 20:43

Does that make it ok for bad things to happen to men though?

Who said that?!

Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 20:45

I’m very surprised that your son is a teacher arthuritis Did you not tell him how all the women in the playground will say he’s a massive peado

Why would I?

He is a secondary school teacher and that example was about an infant school teacher in reply to someone saying that men stop other men from entering the caring professions by calling their motives into question.

I haven't heard men do this but I've heard women do it. That's all.

I'm sorry that my life isn't full of stories about being raped, about being beaten by my husband of having a promotion ripped out of my hand by a sexist pig of a man who leered down my top but my life hasn't been like that. I have no experience of it. I totally believe that it does happen though.

Which is where we part company I guess. You haven't experienced what I have and so I am lying, including about being a woman.

Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 20:47

NO! Show me anywhere anyone has said it is? But on a thread about women’s rights can we please, please stop fucking making it all about bloody men!

Not a thread about women's rights though is it?

It's about why men can't have a single sex group when women can.

So isn't it about men's rights?

BertrandRussell · 16/09/2018 20:50

"Hardly anyone agreeing that bad things happening to men are bad."

That really, really is rubbish, you know!

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 16/09/2018 20:51

Not a thread about women's rights though is it?

Yes it is

The whole OP is about womens rights going too far

Apparently

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 16/09/2018 20:52

To think women’s rights are actually bad for women

To to remind you of the title

Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 20:52

But while we are on the subject, who are the people who take the piss out of men of they dare to show their feelings? Is it women?

It's men and women isn't it?

You've all shown that on here.

Sneering because my son might be upset about something.

He's not entitled to feel something because he is a man.

That is the attitude.

And I dare say the attitude that you give out to any man that you meet. They can't be upset, or worried about anything because so much worse happens to women and they should just think themselves lucky.

BertrandRussell · 16/09/2018 20:52

"
It's about why men can't have a single sex group when women can.

So isn't it about men's rights?"
In an area where men are under represented of course they can.

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