To think women’s rights are actually bad for women

[crazydoglady6867]

I am sure I will get shot down for this but here goes:

I really think that women wanting and largely getting EQUALITY is the best thing that is happening in modern times. What I have an issue with is women wanting to be better than men, wanting more rights and with girls/women only groups sports events etc we are actually just segregating ourselves and making men feel ostracised in some situations which is making them feel they need to gain back this “power” they feel they should have over women.
I am in a bike group who have a ladies section and they are just recently going a bit OTT over the women riders and making them more inclusive than the men really, they have special ride outs for them but men are not allowed to have a male only one. Etc etc...

You can see where I am going with this, and I am happy to change my mind in how I feel if posters come up with a reasonable debate into why I am wrong here.

I want to be thought of as equal to my male counterparts I don’t feel I need to have special running races they can’t run in or special groups my son can’t join or special days to celebrate my gender.

I remember a sketch in the 70’s on the Two Ronnies with Diana Dors in it called “the worm has turned” and thinking yeah as if that will ever happen, well people I can honestly say I am getting a bit worried for our men.

I know MN has a good proportion of man haters but you can’t all be like that, am I really the only one who feels like this.

@JacquesHammer

How can you make someone feel or not feel something though?

No one can make me feel anything.

If I feel something then that is my choice.

I feel intimidated around women - most of whom do nothing at all to make me feel that. It's past experiences that are affecting how I react today.

So the women that I meet today can't make me feel less intimidated. That has to come from me.

@Arthuritis I don't know TBH but I'd be very surprised if it wasn't!

@Arthuritis

Coming from the massive privilege of not having been sexually assaulted?

You do realise that most jobs don’t actually require an enhanced DBS?

Why are you focusing on this one minor aspect instead of the bigger picture and the vulnerable people DBS checks protect

But lots of professions do. If I'd trained to be a teacher why would I be happy doing something else.

And I'm not so sure that DBS does keep vulnerable people safe. It helps, but as I said Jimmy Saville would have had a clear DBS because he had never been caught.

That is all that it proves - you've not been caught.

And of course it would be awful for a male to be falsely accused of a sex crime. I’d be very upset if it was my son. But it’s largely the behaviour of men AS A CLASS that’s led to the requirement for these checks for protection of the vulnerable. No it’s not a perfect system. Is anything?

@JacquesHammer

Depends what you mean by that I guess.

That is all that it proves - you've not been caught

It’s better than no checks at all.

@GunpowderGelatine
Definitely not in the schools that I have knowledge of.

It should be though.

I can't for the life of me remember who said this, but a man in a room full of a hundred women, and women only, is ecstatic. A woman in a room full of 100 men, and men only, is intimidated or scared. It's sad but true. Not true for me either. I'm often in a room or place that's full of men but very few women. Nothing intimidating at all.

This sounds very specific to one person Arthuritis? One person who has been falsely accused and cannot work in a school because of it?

The difference is, most of us arguing for checks like these to be in place aren’t speaking about one example, Huntley is the high profile one yes, Mick Philpott is another, but it is to protect a wider group of women and children.

I’m not saying one man being affected isn’t awful, I’m saying that there is always going to be collateral damage and it’s usually been women and children. Lots of them.

It’s better than no checks at all.

It's definitely a tool but it makes me worry that people are lulled into a false sense of security.
I often see adverts on local facebook page for babysitters, stating that they are DBS checked.

No idea if any parents ever take up these adverts but I do feel like posting "And?"

I hope that parents don't assume that this person is safe just because they have a DBS certificate.

JacquesHammer
For the third time, if we WANT the change we need to effect it.

I hope that parents don't assume that this person is safe just because they have a DBS certificate

I agree with this too.

I’m not saying one man being affected isn’t awful, I’m saying that there is always going to be collateral damage and it’s usually been women and children. Lots of them.
Is it lots though?

I only know of Ian Huntley because it was high profile.

I wonder how many people are refused a job because of a failed DBS as opposed to the number of perpetrators never caught he would have a clean DBS?

"We need to teach our girls to stand up for themselves so they can teach boys not to think it’s ok to rape a woman"
I still don't understand why you think it's up to women to teach men. Why aren't you calling for men to police men's behaviour?

Arthuritis fair enough, I apologise and withdraw my ironic statement and agree with you on this:

Any woman that alleges rape should absolutely and always be believed.

For the third time, if we WANT the change we need to effect it.

What do you think feminists have being doing all this time? Knitting in their lady only groups?

Women on our own it can take years and years to change laws/society views. Men need to do their share too. Womens voices are dismissed by those who decide on the cganges we are denanding...why because those in power are men.

Christ material rape was legal until the 1990s! Do you really think women only demanded for this change in the law in 1989?

Is it lots though?

Given that 2 women a week are killed by a partner or former partner, I’d say yes. Those figures are only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to male violence towards women.

When men are attacked on a night out and beaten unconscious, is it women? Rarely, if ever.

Men as a class, have a propensity for violence towards women and children.

Women, as a class, don’t have a propensity to make false allegations.

It’s about the bigger picture.

We need to teach our girls to stand up for themselves so they can teach boys not to think it’s ok to rape a woman

Why the fuck is it the job of girls to teach boys not to rape? Why is everything women's responsibility?

I still don't understand why you think it's up to women to teach men. Why aren't you calling for men to police men's behaviour?

But if as a society we all challenged behaviour wouldn't that be a good thing?

I'm not saying it's anyone group's responsibility. It a collective responsibility of all decent citizens to challenge bad behaviour.

I can't for the life of me remember who said this, but a man in a room full of a hundred women, and women only, is ecstatic. A woman in a room full of 100 men, and men only, is intimidated or scared

I’m not!

well done you. for your forth right womanhood.

We need to teach our girls to stand up for themselves so they can teach boys not to think it’s ok to rape a woman

yeah cos girls are always telling boys it's ok to rape them.

We need to teach our girls to stand up for themselves so they can teach boys not to think it’s ok to rape a woman

Yet again, down to women to teach men how to behave. Are men lacking in intelligence? Do they need to be babyied and spoon fed all their lives? Are they not capable of learning this themselves?

JacquesHammer
Take my own experience for instance

When I first met my DH he came from a family where the man spoke, the woman listened. I fancied him, I fell in love with him, I trained him how to be around a woman I effected the change I wanted. I am sure he effected some changes about me, like I no longer smoke, I suppose he effected that change. That is very simplified but I am sure you can see where I am coming from.
We want our girls to grow up confident and our boys to grow up to appreciate that and love it. Someone needs to start the ball rolling to effect that change.

"But if as a society we all challenged behaviour wouldn't that be a good thing?"
Yes. But bearing in mind that most bad behaviour in society is perpetrated by men, it would be nice if they took just a bit of collective responsibility, don't you think?

For the third time, if we WANT the change we need to effect it

What do you think feminists have been doing whilst MRAs wimper about just how bad the poor men have it?