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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think women’s rights are actually bad for women

999 replies

crazydoglady6867 · 16/09/2018 08:05

I am sure I will get shot down for this but here goes:

I really think that women wanting and largely getting EQUALITY is the best thing that is happening in modern times. What I have an issue with is women wanting to be better than men, wanting more rights and with girls/women only groups sports events etc we are actually just segregating ourselves and making men feel ostracised in some situations which is making them feel they need to gain back this “power” they feel they should have over women.
I am in a bike group who have a ladies section and they are just recently going a bit OTT over the women riders and making them more inclusive than the men really, they have special ride outs for them but men are not allowed to have a male only one. Etc etc...

You can see where I am going with this, and I am happy to change my mind in how I feel if posters come up with a reasonable debate into why I am wrong here.

I want to be thought of as equal to my male counterparts I don’t feel I need to have special running races they can’t run in or special groups my son can’t join or special days to celebrate my gender.

I remember a sketch in the 70’s on the Two Ronnies with Diana Dors in it called “the worm has turned” and thinking yeah as if that will ever happen, well people I can honestly say I am getting a bit worried for our men.

I know MN has a good proportion of man haters but you can’t all be like that, am I really the only one who feels like this.

OP posts:
Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 16:56

The ironic comment Arthuritis is because I believe, and if I am wrong I withdraw it and apologise, that you were talking at great length earlier about how damaging and terrible it is for men to be accused of rape.

Absolutely not at all. That is completely wrong.

I said that because ALLEGATIONS are recorded on a DBS report that if a woman makes a false allegation that will affect the man forever. That even if that charge is dropped that the record will be disclosed on any future DBS.

Please withdraw that statement. People are just going to focus on that and I absolutely never said it or hinted at it.

Any woman that alleges rape should absolutely and always be believed.

I hope that is clear.

I was just highlighting that if a false allegation is made it doesn't disappear if it is proven to be false.

As another poster said she knows someone who went to prison for child abuse, yet the woman admitted that she made it up for the compensation.

Lweji · 16/09/2018 16:56

Shared parental leave is not a "right earned by men". It's about distributing parental responsibilities between parents so that women don't shoulder full responsibility, and suffer less consequences of maternity in the work place.
Because maternity rights affect outcome in the work place, it seems.
It wasn't because men, as a group, really wanted to stay at home taking care of babies, although some seem to want to.

Original poster
crazydoglady6867 · 16/09/2018 16:57

Lweji
I believe that in all my posts I have said, yes.
My argument is that segregation of women and having women only events and groups is not doing us any favours, that is it really. I said organisations like my motorcycle club girl guides and some businesses are getting it wrong and by excluding men from things it is making them feel ostracised and not helping our cause. Probably a misleading title I know but once it’s out there I can’t change it.!

OP posts:
Lweji · 16/09/2018 16:57

So, shared parental leave is something that women pushed, for equality at work.

BitOutOfPractice · 16/09/2018 16:59

Aww. The poor men might feel ostracised Sad

Lweji · 16/09/2018 16:59

by excluding men from things it is making them feel ostracised and not helping our cause.

How?
How does including men in those events help our cause?

Original poster
crazydoglady6867 · 16/09/2018 16:59

BitOutOfPractice
We’ve been through that one about 18 pages ago

OP posts:
YeTalkShiteHen · 16/09/2018 16:59

crazydoglady6867 just as an aside, I believe MNHQ can edit thread titles.

Although I think this thread is becoming positive, despite the initial negativity.

JacquesHammer · 16/09/2018 17:01

*Only a small minority of women are suited to studying the high level physics and mathematics required for engineering and no amount of 'feminism' is going to change that.

The fact is, most women are just not 'wired' that way.

If we have 'science' brains, they're more geared towards biology and chemistry as opposed to mathematics and physics*

There’s no way of saying politely what a load of utter tosh is there.

GunpowderGelatine · 16/09/2018 17:04

I said that because ALLEGATIONS are recorded on a DBS report that if a woman makes a false allegation that will affect the man forever.

Not necessarily.

If it's a genuine false allegation, but the police at some point investigated him (but never charged him) it MAY go into "other relevant information" box on an enhanced DBS certificate. The local police force then look at this and they will see from the police national database that a complaint was once made. They then go through a VERY stringent process to determine if that information should be included on his certificate. The chief of police signs off on this decision and it is essentially a decision made through a flow chart. You have to get to the end of the flow chart to consider including it. One of the 'factors' in the flow chart is "is the information truthful" - of its a genuine false allegation, amtherefore the answer is 'no' it cannot be included. Happy to link to the framework and flow chart.

If you are charged with rape and it's then dropped, this does NOT mean you are innocent.

Forgive the copy and paste but I've just posted this elsewhere and think it's relevant here -

At this point I want to point out that after Ian Huntley and the Soham murders, the DBS (then CRB) checks came into force, the very point of them being that you could check an array of details about a person. If Ian Huntley had a DBS check today he'd never get a job in a school. BUT he was never actually convicted of any of the sexual and assault crimes he undoubtedly committed before he murdered those poor girls, so if you didn't have charges for sexual assaults on there then his DBS would come back clear. Is it really worth risking the safety and lives of so many vulnerable people for the sake of the vanishingly few falsely accused men? Yes it's a bit like collateral damage and it's not ideal - but if someone has to be collateral damage I'd rather it be a couple of dozen men than thousands of vulnerable men women and children

Original poster
crazydoglady6867 · 16/09/2018 17:04

leweji

I have said it before but I will say it again just for those that cannot be bothered to read the thread, It is more about making things women only and not teaching our girls from day 1 to stand up to bullying and that way they don’t need to have safe groups away from men as they will be able to stand up for themselves in any situation. But the whole thread is so much more than that at least skim my replies to give you an idea of how it’s moved on.

OP posts:
Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 17:04

So its @Mamaryllis asking if a man is going to be taking parental leave.

Why not ask her why she expects the woman to share her maternity leave?

I suggested giving men and women equal leave, neither one nor the other taking away from the opposite side, but got derided for it being too expensive.

So men should play their part in caring for baby but they can't share maternity leave because it's for the women and they can't have their own paternity leave because that's too expensive.

So what is your suggestion?

Let's not have babies. Then no one needs to make any sacrifices in order to care for them.

butterflysugarbaby · 16/09/2018 17:06

@arthuritis

So how many of your friends or family members are rapists, murderers, bank robbers, shoplifters?

What the fuck are you ON about?

That is irrelevant because I never claimed any of them were or were NOT.

Nice try. Keep digging, and keep chatting shit. You are entertaining me quite nicely. Smile

BertrandRussell · 16/09/2018 17:07

crazydog-you seem to be regarding it as inevitable that men will be bullying and intimidating......

Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 17:07

If it's a genuine false allegation, but the police at some point investigated him (but never charged him) it MAY go into "other relevant information" box on an enhanced DBS certificate.

Yes. This was the situation.

We have already discussed this and why they do it.

I said pages ago that I don't know how you deal with it because I understand why it was brought in (Ian Huntley) but that if you are the man accused wrongly then this policy can ruin your whole life when you have done nothing wrong.

butterflysugarbaby · 16/09/2018 17:08

I have said it before but I will say it again just for those that cannot be bothered to read the thread, It is more about making things women only and not teaching our girls from day 1 to stand up to bullying and that way they don’t need to have safe groups away from men as they will be able to stand up for themselves in any situation. But the whole thread is so much more than that at least skim my replies to give you an idea of how it’s moved on.

Well said OP.

You may as well talk to yourself though, coz the woman-haters don't want to hear what you are saying. And all they wanna chat about is da poor iccle MENZ and how downtrodden they are wah wah....

Lweji · 16/09/2018 17:09

It is more about making things women only and not teaching our girls from day 1 to stand up to bullying

And you've been shown how that is bollocks because, physically, women cannot really stand up to men.

By creating women only groups in previously male dominated areas, women are standing up for their rights. For their right to safety and to avoid bullying.
How is that a problem?

YeTalkShiteHen · 16/09/2018 17:09

I said pages ago that I don't know how you deal with it because I understand why it was brought in (Ian Huntley) but that if you are the man accused wrongly then this policy can ruin your whole life when you have done nothing wrong

I do agree, it makes life complicated for a man falsely accused.

At least he has a life to live. Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman should be 26 years old now, adult women who had made a life for themselves. But they aren’t.

Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 17:09

What the fuck are you ON about?

So why even ask?

It's pointless and proves nothing other than to engage in bullying behaviour.

Mamaryllis · 16/09/2018 17:10

I’m all for equal leave, in case it isn’t clear. There are wry few men who have the balls to consider it. They know full well that taking time off work results in slower career trajectory, and will damage their career. Until men view child rearing in the same way they view ‘bringing home the bacon’, we aren’t going to get to a level playing field where parents can make the decision themselves what works best for their families in child care terms.
Women are in the lowest paid jobs. Oh sorry darling, it doesn’t make financial sense for me to parent equally.

Original poster
crazydoglady6867 · 16/09/2018 17:10

BertrandRussell
Not at all but organisations do if they feel they need to provide safe groups for women/girls only so they are not intimidated by men and boys.

OP posts:
Lweji · 16/09/2018 17:10

If a group of male bikers rape you, how will you stand up to them?

GunpowderGelatine · 16/09/2018 17:11

OP it's not just about having a safe place away from men - as most men aren't dangerous. It's the Male entitlement which results in dominance and making it hard for women to enjoy mixed groups. For example I only ever go to women's gyms and women's swimming sessions. Men dominate the weights and machines in gyms and hog the mirrors, and they don't clean equipment or machinery despite their arse sweat being on it. They also splash about in swim sessions in whatever lane they see fit, so if I'm enjoying a brisk swim in the slow lane some twat always comes up behind doing the butterfly. It's not just the odd man, it's the vast majority of men. It's not a coincidence - they've been conditioned to believe everything is theirs, they're too good to clean equipment, there'll be no consequences etc. So much is far more pleasant with just other women there.

Original poster
crazydoglady6867 · 16/09/2018 17:12

Lweji
We have done all this pages ago, just read it all and it will answer your questions.

OP posts:
Mamaryllis · 16/09/2018 17:13

It goes right back to choices in a vacuum. I choose to shave my legs and wax my lady garden! I’m empowered! I’m not a commodity for men! Uh huh. It’s not a level playing field.
I stayed home for all three children for 6 months. I’m in the same bind as everyone else. It’s not a choice unless you have a choice. And you should have a choice.