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Original poster

To think women’s rights are actually bad for women

999 replies

crazydoglady6867 · 16/09/2018 08:05

I am sure I will get shot down for this but here goes:

I really think that women wanting and largely getting EQUALITY is the best thing that is happening in modern times. What I have an issue with is women wanting to be better than men, wanting more rights and with girls/women only groups sports events etc we are actually just segregating ourselves and making men feel ostracised in some situations which is making them feel they need to gain back this “power” they feel they should have over women.
I am in a bike group who have a ladies section and they are just recently going a bit OTT over the women riders and making them more inclusive than the men really, they have special ride outs for them but men are not allowed to have a male only one. Etc etc...

You can see where I am going with this, and I am happy to change my mind in how I feel if posters come up with a reasonable debate into why I am wrong here.

I want to be thought of as equal to my male counterparts I don’t feel I need to have special running races they can’t run in or special groups my son can’t join or special days to celebrate my gender.

I remember a sketch in the 70’s on the Two Ronnies with Diana Dors in it called “the worm has turned” and thinking yeah as if that will ever happen, well people I can honestly say I am getting a bit worried for our men.

I know MN has a good proportion of man haters but you can’t all be like that, am I really the only one who feels like this.

OP posts:
Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 16:35

Jesus wept you’ll never understand will you? Society has done quite the job on you. How very sad.

Do you know who has had that affect on me? The girls and women that have bullied me throughout my life.

And it continues on here too - I don't think how you think I should, therefore I'm a man.

YeTalkShiteHen · 16/09/2018 16:36

Yes I do. My son is a great man. He has a strong sense of fair play and will always stand up for others. My husband and I have raised him to respect everyone.

Great.

In just the same way as we have raised our daughter to respect everyone. She too is an amazing person

Also great.

It’s how we should parent.

YeTalkShiteHen · 16/09/2018 16:37

And it continues on here too - I don't think how you think I should, therefore I'm a man.

I’ve never said you were a man, and you know it.

I’ve been bullied all my life, mostly by girls at school and women. Because I’m weird, and odd and blunt and different.

I don’t use it as an excuse to be yet another person keeping women quiet.

Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 16:40

But until men want it and value child-rearing as much as they value their job, social change isn’t exactly racing away.
But we discussed the examples where the man wanted to take paternity leave but the woman refused to allow him. And any of us that said that was wrong were shouted down and toldnp way should women have to share with men, that women have to recover from childbirth etc.

So men Can't win - ask to share paternity leave - no sod off. That's for women.

Don't take it - you won't take your share of responsibility in raising this child.

YeTalkShiteHen · 16/09/2018 16:40

Of course there are decent men, but if they’re the majority why do people make such a fuss of a “hands on Dad” (DP gets it a lot and doesn’t like it) or a man who does share the load of raising a family and running a home with his SAHP?

These men are praised and lauded for doing what should be standard, because it isn’t standard.

I’m deemed “lucky” for having a man who does parent with me, who does contribute his share of traditional “wifework” and does treat me as an equal.

Why is that do you think? If I’m deemed lucky it implies that isn’t the norm.

Lweji · 16/09/2018 16:40

BTW, did the OP actually say how women's rights are bad for women?

The entire opening post was actually how they're bad for men...

Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 16:41

I don’t use it as an excuse to be yet another person keeping women quiet.

But those girls and women have shaped me and the way that I see women now.

It was always boys and men that accepted me.

Lweji · 16/09/2018 16:41

But we discussed the examples where the man wanted to take paternity leave but the woman refused to allow him. (...) So men Can't win - ask to share paternity leave - no sod off. That's for women.

Erm... Examples are not a rule. How about examples of women actually sharing paternity leave? I know a few cases.

Lweji · 16/09/2018 16:42

It was always boys and men that accepted me.

Are you saying that no women ever accepted you? And that all men accepted you?

Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 16:43

@YeTalkShiteHen
And who is applauding your partner? Other men? Or men and women?

Of course it's not right.

But women are also doing it.

butterflysugarbaby · 16/09/2018 16:44

@yetalkshitehen

You only have to see the threads on here complaining about crap husbands, always, always the MIL is somehow at fault for her son's inadequacy and ineptitude. Never his father, that’s part of the problem.

Brilliantly put! Always the fucking woman's fault. Same if kids are naughty or badly behaved. The mother's fault!

Just as I thought. @arthurtitis You DON'T know if your males family members have ever raped or sexually assaulted anyone DO you?

So don't be obnoxious and assume they haven't.

Not saying they HAVE, but you don't KNOW, do you?!

GunpowderGelatine · 16/09/2018 16:46

Statistically it's pretty likely that we all know a few rapists and sexual predators. 1 in 10 women in the U.K. are raped, it ain't the same man doing it.

Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 16:46

Are you saying that no women ever accepted you? And that all men accepted you?

Actually yes I am. Until I got older and then basically chose to have male friends rather than female because I just felt more comfortable.

Men have just always accepted me as is. No game playing. Just straightforward.

So I don't share your views that men are the enemy because I've never seen that.

I've seen the opposite.

YeTalkShiteHen · 16/09/2018 16:47

It was always boys and men that accepted me

Aye me too. I encountered some shitty bullies, it didn’t make me hate women.

And who is applauding your partner? Other men? Or men and women?

Both, and any time it happens both he and I would challenge it.

GunpowderGelatine · 16/09/2018 16:48

And if anyone thinks men have spearheaded women rights and feminism - I'm talking women being able to read, vote, have rights to their body, their children etc - you are beyond deluded. Do you think men just say up one day and decided to give us the vote? Or do you think women laboured for decades for it?

RedDogsBeg · 16/09/2018 16:48

The ironic comment Arthuritis is because I believe, and if I am wrong I withdraw it and apologise, that you were talking at great length earlier about how damaging and terrible it is for men to be accused of rape.

It seems women should only be listened to provided what they are saying doesn't upset men or have any impact on them whatsoever.

Lweji · 16/09/2018 16:50

I've met shitty men and women. I hate neither group.

GunpowderGelatine · 16/09/2018 16:50

I missed the beginning of the thread about false rape accusations but I always like to point out how vanishingly rare they are and implore people to remember that TRUE allegations don't bloody ruin lives so let's not make rape all about the menz please

YeTalkShiteHen · 16/09/2018 16:50

So I don't share your views that men are the enemy because I've never seen that

You’ve repeatedly accused me of misunderstanding, but this is a massive massive misunderstanding or misinterpretation of what I’ve been saying.

I don’t hate men. I hate the culture of male dominance which oppresses, abuses and belittles women.

Two entirely separate things.

My dad is a good man, a decent, kind and honest man. He’s also “old school” and holds views which I challenge, regularly. He’s not bad, but he is part of the problem.

DP doesn’t hold these views. He was horrified when he was asked to carry my Mum’s coffin in my place because he’s a man. If I’d been strong enough at the time, I would have challenged it too, but I wasn’t. It’s something I’m still very angry about.

Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 16:50

@butterflysugarbaby

So how many of your friends or family members are rapists, murderers, bank robbers, shoplifters?

What a stupid point to make. Until we have a reason to think differently about people we trust and believe them don't we?

I have no idea what sort of a point you are trying to make

CosmicCanary · 16/09/2018 16:50

So men Can't win - ask to share paternity leave - no sod off. That's for women.

Don't take it - you won't take your share of responsibility in raising this child.

Its Maternity leave. Why should women give up half of it to men? If men want more than 2 weeks paternity leave why are they not fighting for it? Why should women have to give up theirs or fight for the men?

If men want to be involved in the care of their newborn they why are they not demanding better paternity rights?

RedDogsBeg · 16/09/2018 16:52

There we go - the women on here think men are the enemy, took 24 pages but I knew we'd get it eventually.

YeTalkShiteHen · 16/09/2018 16:52

It’s easy and convenient to label us man haters, it fits the patriarchal agenda nicely.

GunpowderGelatine · 16/09/2018 16:53

Shared parental leave has a fairly low uptake. I'm not sure how much men do want it. But yes why on earth would we give men half our maternity leave. And YY if they want better paternity rights, do what women did for maternity rights and fight for them! Lobby MPs, form groups, get volunteers, work hard to make change. Ditto when it comes to refuges. You don't just look over at another group and what they've fought for and say "we want some of that, hand it over!"

YeTalkShiteHen · 16/09/2018 16:54

You don't just look over at another group and what they've fought for and say "we want some of that, hand it over!"

Exactly! And yet it’s standard for women to be the ones told to “hand it over”

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