To think women’s rights are actually bad for women

[crazydoglady6867]

I am sure I will get shot down for this but here goes:

I really think that women wanting and largely getting EQUALITY is the best thing that is happening in modern times. What I have an issue with is women wanting to be better than men, wanting more rights and with girls/women only groups sports events etc we are actually just segregating ourselves and making men feel ostracised in some situations which is making them feel they need to gain back this “power” they feel they should have over women.
I am in a bike group who have a ladies section and they are just recently going a bit OTT over the women riders and making them more inclusive than the men really, they have special ride outs for them but men are not allowed to have a male only one. Etc etc...

You can see where I am going with this, and I am happy to change my mind in how I feel if posters come up with a reasonable debate into why I am wrong here.

I want to be thought of as equal to my male counterparts I don’t feel I need to have special running races they can’t run in or special groups my son can’t join or special days to celebrate my gender.

I remember a sketch in the 70’s on the Two Ronnies with Diana Dors in it called “the worm has turned” and thinking yeah as if that will ever happen, well people I can honestly say I am getting a bit worried for our men.

I know MN has a good proportion of man haters but you can’t all be like that, am I really the only one who feels like this.

The discussion in the playground, amongst mums was awful - why would a man want to do this job, clearly a paedophile.

4 DC went through primary school with 6 male teachers from nursery upwards. They are very popular teachers amongst the parents and after 15 years of standing in the playground I never heard any comments like this. That said you get thick idiots in all walks of life so I can well believe some parents think this way about male teachers.

In answer Arthuritis if I’d heard women say that, I’d have challenged them and told them how appalling what they were saying was.

As a class women have to stop making these remarks about men in caring professions

Is it okay for men as a class to make the same remarks about men in caring professionals?

As a class women have to stop making these remarks about men in caring professions

But earlier you said men weren’t responsible for the poor behaviour of other men.

So why are women collectively responsible?

BertrandRussell. Goodness me no, but we are getting there, it is the segregation that I think is holding us back, how many times do I have to say this, I feel that being singled out makes us look like vulnerable needy people not equal human beings.

What the fuck are you talking about op ??.? Do you not think this approach has been tried, for years we have been trying to stand up to men and show we are strong.......it hasn’t got any better so quite frankly you’re chatting shite

Look up the punk feminist band dreamnails, this is what young women have to deal with now, rape threats on Twitter as well as all the other shit we have to put up with, inequality in the work place, rape, wife work, body shaming.....the list goes on

As a class women have to stop making these remarks about men in caring professions

I don’t think the majority of women do. I’d like to hope not anyway.

You must be on the wind up.

No I'm not.

I'm saying that if a woman makes lits of money out of jumping around on stage in skimpy clothes with her boobs out then the message being sent out is that is all that women are.

That being talented or clever isn't important, just what you look like.

So those women are then selling out other women. Because they could say I'm not going to dress like that. I'm not being a part of you objectifying women

Actually the message is well I can make money by doing that so that's fine then.

Women as a class have a responsibility to change the view of women.

Women as a class have a responsibility to change the view of women.

Many are trying, as I said above. The usual insults are thrown back, branding us jealous, ugly, stupid, angry, man hating.

Why do you think that is? I think it’s because men (as a class) don’t want their objectification of women to stop, because they enjoy it.

Why is it on women to stop men objectifying women?

Is it okay for men as a class to make the same remarks about men in caring professionals?

No it's not ok for anyone to make these remarks.

I'm responding to the poster who said that attitudes of other men stop men from choosing these careers.

This teacher was the first male teacher at that school in a long while so it was seen as extraordinary. Single form entry so only 7 teachers all female and female Head.

Shortly after another male started and it was accepted a bit more readily but it wasn't just men who had an issue, women did too.

I very much doubt this is true, Blame - At school almost every lesson this term is focussing on gender which isn't going to be beneficial to his education
His maths lessons are focused on gender? Physics? PE? Chemistry? I can believe that, by chance, there might be an element of gender related work in say, biology, geography, English lit, but no school would jeopardise exam results (or common sense) by making EVERY lesson about gender.
In any case, we aren’t talk8ng about gender on this thread. We are talking about sex.

I was thrilled when “Grid Girls” were dropped. But called a bully for making women jobless when I campaigned against them for example.

I love boxing, I love Katie Taylor in particular and hate that “ring girls” are still a thing. Whenever that is mentioned, the same old insults are chucked. You’re just jealous, you wish you were as beautiful, you’re fat and bitter.

No, I want these women to realise they are worth more than titilating men.

Football, I’m thrilled to see more investment in grass roots football for girls and women. To see the Scottish National team qualify for a World Cup was brilliant!

prettywhiteguitar

Not sure if the band you speak of, I just think we haven’t been trying hard enough and if you read the full thread you will see my argument is not about that it is saying we don’t do ourselves any favours wanting g to be segregated or different, I am sure trolls will attack anyone Male or female when it is online as they are tests and don’t really care who they hurt. I am talking about REAL LIFE. here, about girls being shown as 5 year olds that they don’t have to deal with boys attitudes they can just go off to their girls group and sweep that shit under the carpet.

OP what do you mean by “not having to deal with boys attitudes”?

So why are women collectively responsible?

Because if you say that men as a class are collectively responsible than women as a class must be too?

I don't believe it actually.

I don't think men or women are responsible but some here obviously think that men as a class are responsible for the behaviour of men so therefore you must agree that women as a class are responsible for the behaviour of women.

Men committing rape and violence against women is a crime

Women making money showing their bodies on the stage isn't
Men do this too, btw, baring their chests and muscles, both for straight and gay audiences

Ads make use of both unclothed men and women to sell products, with multi-million ad budgets

Also, comparing salaries for stars in films and TV, usually men usually get paid much more than women for comparable work

including scenes where they bare all

You still won't accept that the men who control that industry are the ones calling the tune Arthuritis? It is the men in power and with the money that are setting the standards for what sells.

On the subject of men in caring professions, it is by and large other men who denigrate those professions for men. Women should not make those remarks you posted, but neither should men and I've heard them say exactly the same things and more besides.

Men as a class have a responsibility to change their view of women.

As an example re taking clothes off.

Full frontal female nudity in films and tv (with ratings over 18 or post watershed) is legal.

Full frontal male nudity in a state of arousal is not, and full frontal male nudity not in a state of arousal is very, very rare.

Why is this?

Why do you think that is? I think it’s because men (as a class) don’t want their objectification of women to stop, because they enjoy it.

Yes, remember Nigel Farage's furious indignation on the radio that grid girls were going to end up unemployed because of those awful feminists, when up until then he had not given a shiny shite about the employment opportunities of women at all. His views were echoed by many men.

Or look at the contradiction with women's breasts when used for breastfeeding rather than for the pleasure of men (again I'm thinking of Farage here but again his comments were echoed by many many blokes).

Tits in the newspaper (or anywhere on show for the pleasure of men): no problem, they are just breasts, why shouldn't these women be allowed to make money from showing their breasts, they should have the choice to do what they want.

A flash of nipple from a woman breastfeeding her baby in a restaurant: women should be considerate of others feelings, it makes some people feel uncomfortable, go on the corner, don't be 'ostentatious' about it, don't 'wap' your boobs out, no one wants to see your saggy old tits etc etc.

about girls being shown as 5 year olds that they don’t have to deal with boys attitudes they can just go off to their girls group and sweep that shit under the carpet

crazy i did girl only activities from aged 4 to 17. I still had to deal with boys/men and their attitudes during that time and since.

What the girls only clubs did provide me with was a bloody break from boys/men and their attitudes, thier tendancey to dominate situations and from 13 onwards a break from their chat up lines/lewd behaviour and insults.
There was and is no sweeping it under the carpet.

Men don’t avoid careers in caring, nursing, cleaning and kindergartens because women think they might be dodgy, ffs.

They avoid them because they see it as women’s work and below them.

The very idea that women being a bit against something stops men doing it is hilarious.

@Baked Beans

Women NEED 4-6 weeks off max to recover fully from from a natural birth.

A good friend of mine, a midwife, says most fully recover far sooner than that!

Look at women all over the world who cope just fine without a year off. Look at the US, no year off for them, they’d be thrilled to have what we do.

You sound quite ridiculous when you say ‘oh well in that case we’ll have to offer both parents 1 year and pay it then’ that’s intentionally silly. Both parents could easily be entitled to 6 months leave each with the same statutory payment amount. Once could transfer their leave to the other if they wish but FEMINISM dictates that it’s UNFAIR a woman be entitled to 12 months leave when men get 2 weeks!

Unless you’re suggesting men are less entitled to or capable of looking after their children?

• You don’t like that I have a valid point so are going to ridicule it! 🙈😂

Men don’t avoid careers in caring, nursing, cleaning and kindergartens because women think they might be dodgy, ffs. grin

They avoid them because they see it as women’s work and below them.

This!

I don't think men or women are responsible but some here obviously think that men as a class are responsible for the behaviour of men so therefore you must agree that women as a class are responsible for the behaviour of women

Absolutely I believe it. Just didn't presume you did (correctly).

If I heard anybody making comments like that I would absolutely make comment back.

Men as a class have a responsibility to change their view of women

Absolutely this.

Elephantinacravat absolutely! Breast feeding is a brilliant example, people get offended by a breast used for its original purpose! I remember a friend of mine (male) getting uncomfortable about another friend discreetly breastfeeding and I asked him if he’d never seen a breast before. His response was “aye but always in pairs and never in use!” Which neatly demonstrates how fucked up it is that society says a topless woman shown to titilate men is fine, but a woman exposing one breast to feed her child is not! Ridiculous.

Farage is about the best example of toxic masculinity I can think of too.