To think women’s rights are actually bad for women

[crazydoglady6867]

I am sure I will get shot down for this but here goes:

I really think that women wanting and largely getting EQUALITY is the best thing that is happening in modern times. What I have an issue with is women wanting to be better than men, wanting more rights and with girls/women only groups sports events etc we are actually just segregating ourselves and making men feel ostracised in some situations which is making them feel they need to gain back this “power” they feel they should have over women.
I am in a bike group who have a ladies section and they are just recently going a bit OTT over the women riders and making them more inclusive than the men really, they have special ride outs for them but men are not allowed to have a male only one. Etc etc...

You can see where I am going with this, and I am happy to change my mind in how I feel if posters come up with a reasonable debate into why I am wrong here.

I want to be thought of as equal to my male counterparts I don’t feel I need to have special running races they can’t run in or special groups my son can’t join or special days to celebrate my gender.

I remember a sketch in the 70’s on the Two Ronnies with Diana Dors in it called “the worm has turned” and thinking yeah as if that will ever happen, well people I can honestly say I am getting a bit worried for our men.

I know MN has a good proportion of man haters but you can’t all be like that, am I really the only one who feels like this.

Simple. Because she's not a feminist.
That's a very good answer

Women as a class are challenging the perception of women being nothing more than a pair of boobs and a pretty face and look at the reaction to those who do.

But it's so difficult then to change perception isn't it if the women that are feted are the pretty big boobed pop stars?

Anyone can then say well look they don't mind being objectified so it's fine.

What a depressing thread.

I think the take away for me is that those who have money have power, regardless of sex and that those who have money and power will do anything to hold onto it.

This is a male dominated area because it requires strong logical thinking, mathematical and physical science skills. It also often involves being outdoors in all sorts of weather conditions

And? Women can do that too.

I notice the same 'feminists' pushing the above 'STEM' line don't seem too worried about the gender imbalance in areas like nursing

Actually I’d like to see more men in nursing, and also in early years roles such as nurseries and primary schools (not just as headteachers).

You know why they’re not? Because other men take the piss out of them for it, or they’re labelled as paedophiles or it’s not seen (by men) as a valid career path.

So your insinuation that it is women closing these career paths to men is not only wrong, it’s quite ridiculous.

Just as men as a class are responsible for preventing rape surely women as a class are responsible for challenging this perception of women being nothing more than a pair of boobs and a pretty face?

They are. Or at least are trying. And look what happens when they do try to take a stand against it. Women who campaigned against page 3 or against grid girls called 'ugly' and 'jealous' and 'taking away opportunity' and basically getting slated. Look at what happened to Caroline Criado Perez when she dared to campaign for a woman to be on the back of a tenner?

You seem to be saying that feminism is a bad thing whilst also berating women for not being feminist enough?

This is a male dominated area because it requires strong logical thinking, mathematical and physical science skills.

May is a fair-weather feminist, when she thinks it makes her look good

i.e. not a feminist at all, merely an opportunist,
like most current politicians on most issues.

This is a male dominated area because it requires strong logical thinking, mathematical and physical science skills. It also often involves being outdoors in all sorts of weather conditions.

Wha?

They are. Or at least are trying. And look what happens when they do try to take a stand against it. Women who campaigned against page 3 or against grid girls called 'ugly' and 'jealous' and 'taking away opportunity' and basically getting slated. Look at what happened to Caroline Criado Perez when she dared to campaign for a woman to be on the back of a tenner?

We’re trying! And being labelled “bolshy” “hysterical” “ball busting” “jealous” “fat and angry” along with other charming words to put us down.

Because men don’t like it.

The money one in particular is unreal! All that vitriol about a woman being on money, without a single fucking one of them noticing that there is already, in fact, a woman on every single piece of UK currency already!

Too many alreadys there, sorry.

I notice the same 'feminists' pushing the above 'STEM' line don't seem too worried about the gender imbalance in areas like nursing.

Surely those in favour of 'equality' would want to attract hordes of working class young men into the nursing profession in order to 'even up the numbers' ?*

From the grins, I guess you think you have made some sort of hilariously clever point. I have to say, I don't get it?

This is a male dominated area because it requires strong logical thinking, mathematical and physical science skills. It also often involves being outdoors in all sorts of weather conditions

Gosh. Not outside we definitely know it’s not for women. Common knowledge women melt in the rain. Together with all that logical thinking and maths.

Men are much less likely to become teachers, nurses or carers

Is that social pressure against boys from an early age which downgrades "caring" jobs ?
or is just the relatively poor pay for the stress.

I've yet to find a feminist who wants caring jobs to remain low-paid female ghettos.

However, when men do go into these jobs, they seem disproportionately in the senior ranks, management rather than coal face.

If boys had more male teachers as role models, they might do better with reading & writing
So, it probably matters for them

BigChocFrenzy absolutely!

Bluerinsesurrey. That post could not have been a better clarion call and reason why there are In fact so many feminists fighting hard for equality for women

It's also the attitude of women that dissuade men though.

When my son was at primary school 20 odd years ago a male infant teacher. The discussion in the playground, amongst mums was awful - why would a man want to do this job, clearly a paedophile.

So if we want boys to have strong male role models shouldn't we stop making remarks like these?

This is a male dominated area because it requires strong logical thinking, mathematical and physical science skills. It also often involves being outdoors in all sorts of weather conditions

Do we dissolve in the rain? Humanity has developed this wonderful concept called clothing. you should try it, it’s great.

As worn by female members of the British Antarctic survey.

So if we want boys to have strong male role models shouldn't we stop making remarks like these?

I don’t know women who would thankfully. Awful thing to say.

The vast majority of STEM jobs do NOT require great physical strength, physical hardship or outdoor working with outside plumbing etc

My field it's 90% working on computers, 10% meetings & discussions
All fairly comfy indoor work, typical of STEM jobs

So if we want boys to have strong male role models shouldn't we stop making remarks like these?

Who is the “we”?

I have never, ever met a feminist who would suggest a male in a caring job with children is a paedophile.

I'd like one day a year without any male violence towards women and children. Just 24 hours a year where men call a truce.
Lets start with that.

Arthuritis I don't really understand what you mean by this:

But it's so difficult then to change perception isn't it if the women that are feted are the pretty big boobed pop stars?

Anyone can then say well look they don't mind being objectified so it's fine.

There is a huge backlash against women who try to change these perceptions and, again, the people with the money and power in these industries are overwhelmingly men. Feminism is thrown out as an insult against anyone trying to change the above.

I think the take away for me is that those who have money have power, regardless of sex and that those who have money and power will do anything to hold onto it.

And the sex with the most money and power anywhere and everywhere in this world are men.

The pretty boobed women aren't 'feted' FFS. They're seen as something for men to fuck. That's why they're popular!

You must be on the wind up.

I do hope we're not regressing to "lady-brain" talk

I'd like one day a year without any male violence towards women and children. Just 24 hours a year where men call a truce.
Lets start with that.

I’d love that! Prove it can be done and go from there.

Problem is getting people to understand that it is an issue in the first place.

For me the best comparison is the Black Lives Matter movement being shouted down by people claiming All Lives Matter.

Of course they do, but the fact is that a disproportionate amount of violence and murder wasn’t happening to ALL people, there was and is a disproportionate amount of violence and murder committed against black people.

The NAMALT cry is much like that. Of course not all men are like that, BUT the vast vast majority of violent or sexual offences are committed by men, against women and children. Far, far more than any other group.

To deny that is to deny a fact, and until that fact is acknowledged I can’t see how we effect change.

I have never, ever met a feminist who would suggest a male in a caring job with children is a paedophile.
Didn't say feminists. They were women.

As a class women have to stop making these remarks about men in caring professions

When my son was at primary school 20 odd years ago a male infant teacher. The discussion in the playground, amongst mums was awful - why would a man want to do this job, clearly a paedophile.

Really? My DD had a male nursery worker in her nursery, and a male teacher in KS1. I have also worked in Reception with a male colleague. I didn't hear anyone saying anything about paedophiles.