To think women’s rights are actually bad for women

[crazydoglady6867]

I am sure I will get shot down for this but here goes:

I really think that women wanting and largely getting EQUALITY is the best thing that is happening in modern times. What I have an issue with is women wanting to be better than men, wanting more rights and with girls/women only groups sports events etc we are actually just segregating ourselves and making men feel ostracised in some situations which is making them feel they need to gain back this “power” they feel they should have over women.
I am in a bike group who have a ladies section and they are just recently going a bit OTT over the women riders and making them more inclusive than the men really, they have special ride outs for them but men are not allowed to have a male only one. Etc etc...

You can see where I am going with this, and I am happy to change my mind in how I feel if posters come up with a reasonable debate into why I am wrong here.

I want to be thought of as equal to my male counterparts I don’t feel I need to have special running races they can’t run in or special groups my son can’t join or special days to celebrate my gender.

I remember a sketch in the 70’s on the Two Ronnies with Diana Dors in it called “the worm has turned” and thinking yeah as if that will ever happen, well people I can honestly say I am getting a bit worried for our men.

I know MN has a good proportion of man haters but you can’t all be like that, am I really the only one who feels like this.

Men can have their sporting teams celebrated and make millions of pounds from it, while women's football teams and the like are largely ignored. Because people don't want to watch women's football. You can't make them.

“Surely those in favour of 'equality' would want to attract hordes of working class young men into the nursing profession in order to 'even up the numbers' “

I’d love it if that happened. I don’t get your point.

The point is that men tend not to move towards the caring professions because a) they don’t consider them manly and b) the pay’s usually crap.

You still won't accept that the men who control that industry are the ones calling the tune Arthuritis? It is the men in power and with the money that are setting the standards for what sells

I do accept that absolutely.

But what would happen if women refused to comply?

What if all women just said no. I've got a great voice and I'm just going to sing without standing there in a leotard or whatever?

Adele for example. Fantastic voice. Made lots of money and very successful. Not seen her having to be like Miley Cyrus.

Just looking at the X Factor (don't judge me!) lots of girls and women audition wearing jeans and converse, sing really welland get through.

Then you get others who basically perform a strip show on stage.

Why? Others get through just by talent so they could too.

They don't have to do that but they are choosing to do that.

A good friend of mine, a midwife, says most fully recover far sooner than that!

I did, it doesn’t mean I can’t understand that some women need it. Also, I didn’t breastfeed but I can fully understand how more time to establish and continue breastfeeding is important.

You don’t like that I have a valid point so are going to ridicule it

What is your point? It’s not clear.

YeTalkShiteHen. If a 5 year old girl is taught how to not feel intimidated by boys from day 1 then she will not feel the need to join a girls only group at 5 to avoid boys and whatever it is that is intimidating. ( or her mum and dad won’t feel she needs that protection) the more people (boys or girls) are made to feel like they are winning the more they will do it.

I am saying that if, from this day forward we teach our girls from babies that they are equal and can stand up to a boy when he is being intimidating not just have Rainbows/Brownies/GirlGuides to keep them away from the “bully boys”.
I've found that the girls like Brownies/early Guides not because the boys are "bullies" but generally boys of that age are really immature compared to the girls. The girls want to get on and do things - some boys just want to arse about. Pop into any classroom with kids that age - mostly likely the kids being a pain in the arse will be boys. Girls, quite rightly, get sick of that.

They don't have to do that but they are choosing to do that

That’s what we need to work on. Showing women that they’re more than a peep show for men.

The maternal mortality and morbidity rate in the USA is far higher than here. Women don’t manage just fine - they suffer higher rates of complications up to and including death.

Total physical recovery from a birth (not just feeling OK and being back to normal day to day) takes 12m minimum.

Scandinavian countries seem to have it right - decent paid parental leave that’s available to split between parents as they wish.

I think you are talking about your own very personal situation. You aren’t interested in a real debate or understanding about the current climate for women.

You illustrate your argument with pretty insipid examples of girls not living up to your own image of what girls and women should be. In fact you are pretty misogynistic yourself.

Check your self and look up Dreamnails.

crazydoglady6867 I agree with that. As it happens my 5 yo DD was laughed at last week because she likes “boy stuff” (dinosaurs and football) in particular. Which is utter bullshit, and I challenged it. As did she which I am immensely proud of.

If a 5 year old girl is taught how to not feel intimidated by boys from day 1 then she will not feel the need to join a girls only group at 5 to avoid boys and whatever it is that is intimidating

There are many reasons girls want a female-only space. Intimidation isn’t the only reason.

I would ask also though, using your example, shouldn’t we also be teaching our boys from day 1 not to exhibit intimidating behaviour? Why is the onus always on the female to deal with it rather than the male to stop doing it?

But how many women make other breastfeeding women feel uncomfortable.

I breastfed my daughter until she was 3 and a half (although I must have dreamt it because apparently I am a man).

I did it in public because I wanted it to be normal.

I never once had a problem with any man. Not once.

I did have comments from many woman - it's not necessary, in my day we timed feeds so they were done at home oh I heard them all.

Best one, from friend at her son's christening - would I feed upstairs as no one to see me doing it. My daughter was 6 weeks old. I sat up there on my own for most of the day because she was feeding nigh on constantly.

But yes. It's only men that have a problem with women.

Women are clearly so supportive of other women.

YeTalkShiteHen well done to your daughter you should be proud.

I would ask also though, using your example, shouldn’t we also be teaching our boys from day 1 not to exhibit intimidating behaviour? Why is the onus always on the female to deal with it rather than the male to stop doing it?

I agree with this too.

crazydoglady6867 I am, extremely proud. It’s not easy, especially at her age, to go against the crowd and be who you are. I wish I’d been as courageous at her age!

But how many women make other breastfeeding women feel uncomfortable

I hate that, hate hate hate it. I hate the competition around motherhood, the judging and the comments.

Like I said, I never breastfed (which I have been soundly judged for as well) but I’d never judge another woman for doing it. Or not doing it.

I would ask also though, using your example, shouldn’t we also be teaching our boys from day 1 not to exhibit intimidating behaviour? Why is the onus always on the female to deal with it rather than the male to stop doing it?
Who is teaching this to the boys though?

Is there a secret man squad that comes in and teaches toddler boys how to behave?

No. Parents, including mums, grand parents, including nans, are teaching you boys what it is to be male.

So women are as much of the problem. If more women taught their sons better then maybe we would be further forward than we are now.

I would ask also though, using your example, shouldn’t we also be teaching our boys from day 1 not to exhibit intimidating behaviour? Why is the onus always on the female to deal with it rather than the male to stop doing it?

Oh of course we should, but until all people are equal it is up to us to take the lead as it is us that want the change. So in “dealing with it” that is not the same as “putting up with it” we are making changes.

I speak for most of non feminist women on this.

Only a small minority of women are suited to studying the high level physics and mathematics required for engineering and no amount of 'feminism' is going to change that.

The fact is, most women are just not 'wired' that way.

If we have 'science' brains, they're more geared towards biology and chemistry as opposed to mathematics and physics.

This explains widespread female participation in medicine, but not engineering.

As I alluded to previously, the hypocrisy of modern day feminism has thankfully turned a generation of women away from its destructive, anti-male, anti-family, hard left wing clutches'.

For a conservative woman like myself, this is a good thing because it shows that the ideology of 'equality', aka communism, holds little or no appeal.

Who is teaching this to the boys though?

My DP and I do it, together.

The vast majority of our lives are mixed sex. Many live in mixed-sex homes, most kids go to mixed sex schools, the world is mixed-sex.

Do you really think one day a year or a couple of hours a week at a chosen single-sex activity is really all it takes to make boys or girls unable to work or live with the other sex? Do you really think we're all so weak that unless we're constantly in mixed situations we'll stop 'putting up with' and become intimidated by the other sex? That's really not the reality that I see.

I mean, I was a mixed sex home education event recently. Guess what happened - the kids divided by sex on their own. The teen and almost-teen girls went one way, the only teen boy chose to play with the ten year olds boys even when repeatedly encouraged to join the girls his age, the little ones were primarily playing with their own sex. They came together now and then for bigger games but the majority of the time they chose that and were excited by this. My own daughter could not have been more excited that there were 4 other girls her age there since every other activity she does there are far more boys than girls. Surprisingly, she was able to play and put up with boys when she came home and wasn't intimidated by them when she went to cadets the next night.

There is room and benefit from single sex and mixed sex spaces and there is absolutely no need to dismiss one or the other. You can call it segregation to make it seem scarier, but just as I can spend an evening in a group of other disabled people and then 'put up with' able people and just as I can spend a night at a women's disco and then deal with men and I can go to an event for immigrants and then deal with Brits and I can go to a parents events and deal with non-parents, and so on, most people can choose single-sex spaces sometimes and thoroughly enjoy it and still live happily with the other sex. It's not going to damage them to not be in a mixed sex envirornment for a bit.

It's not about being 'different' or 'vulnerable' or whatever, it's about having a space where something we value in ourselves is shared and we can discuss things openly with people with a shared experiences. Those teens and almost-teen girls...they spent time talking about bras and compared bra types and discussed which bras types they found uncomfortable and so on. As I told my daughter, I never did that at her age but she and her girl friends do it regularly. I'm happy for them and I don't see how it would empower them that try to get encourage that with boys around.

The fact is, most women are just not 'wired' that way

You have absolutely no way of showing that. At all.

So many pp seem to have a very odd idea of what feminism is (and isn't)

As I alluded to previously, the hypocrisy of modern day feminism has thankfully turned a generation of women away from its destructive, anti-male, anti-family, hard left wing clutches'

I have no idea where you’re getting your information from, I highly suspect you’re just making things up tbh.

Comparing equality to the oppression of communism? Laughable.

But what would happen if women refused to comply?

What if all women just said no. I've got a great voice and I'm just going to sing without standing there in a leotard or whatever?

In reality though, a young woman who has a great voice always dreamed of being a singer, and is faced with a man who tells her that he can make her a star if she just wears this leotard and writhes around on this sofa, isn't going to turn it down out of principal is she?

Young male artists aren't being asked to give up their careers and all they have dreamed of because they aren't willing to take their clothes off are they?

Why isn't it up to the men in power in the industry to promote more female artists who keep their clothes on?

Only a small minority of women are suited to studying the high level physics and mathematics required for engineering and no amount of 'feminism' is going to change that.

What a load of complete and utter bollocks.