To think women’s rights are actually bad for women

[crazydoglady6867]

I am sure I will get shot down for this but here goes:

I really think that women wanting and largely getting EQUALITY is the best thing that is happening in modern times. What I have an issue with is women wanting to be better than men, wanting more rights and with girls/women only groups sports events etc we are actually just segregating ourselves and making men feel ostracised in some situations which is making them feel they need to gain back this “power” they feel they should have over women.
I am in a bike group who have a ladies section and they are just recently going a bit OTT over the women riders and making them more inclusive than the men really, they have special ride outs for them but men are not allowed to have a male only one. Etc etc...

You can see where I am going with this, and I am happy to change my mind in how I feel if posters come up with a reasonable debate into why I am wrong here.

I want to be thought of as equal to my male counterparts I don’t feel I need to have special running races they can’t run in or special groups my son can’t join or special days to celebrate my gender.

I remember a sketch in the 70’s on the Two Ronnies with Diana Dors in it called “the worm has turned” and thinking yeah as if that will ever happen, well people I can honestly say I am getting a bit worried for our men.

I know MN has a good proportion of man haters but you can’t all be like that, am I really the only one who feels like this.

I have to say, in the instance of the changing room thread, I can’t see why a planned closure of the male changing room (because it was a male getting changed) for a short period in order to prevent the boy being unable to access the facilities would be a problem.
Because other posters argued that the mum and young sister of the boy concerned shouldn't have to get changed in the men's.

I didn't understand this point.

In my view if you shut a room to the public and let only the mum, boy and sister in it ceased to be a mens, or womens, changing room. It was merely a changing room.

But there we are.

That wasn't my view so I can't explain it.

I just felt that in the absence of a 3rd room that a compromise that allowed a disabled boy to go swimming was fair.

Obviously that means that I only care about men and disabled people

(though I would have argued for a disabled girl and her father equally but that doesn't fit with some people's agendas I guess)

CosmicCanary absolutely agree. I don’t think men need extra at all, I think there is provision if it is wanted, and that’s adequate. As you’ve said, it is up to the woman to decide and as she is the one to carry and deliver the baby, I think that’s right.

though I would have argued for a disabled girl and her father equally but that doesn't fit with some people's agendas I guess)

In that instance I would say that the women’s should have a planned closure, as it was the female who needed to change.

Most of all I think it highlights the fact that even with laws in place to protect disabled people, it’s still not enough.

Why Parental Leave is often unequal, but still fair

It is only the woman whose body needs to recover from pregnancy & childbirth, who may well need some months before regaining previous health & fitness to work

it is only the woman who can bf (if she physically is able and wishes to) which obviously requires hours of close contact with the baby and often makes her life in the early months more demanding and complicated than that of the man

So it might be fairer to divide equally the remaining period - if any - after this;
although some women sadly suffer permanent health issues after childbirth, so their taking the full parental leave could be necessary if they still intend to return to work

Arthuritis unless it involves considerable expense. Is there no room at all for you to have a changing area you can access without considerable expense? Nothing?

No. The ground floor is open to the public and so has toilets, including a disabled toilet. Staff areas are upstairs. So staff toilets, restaurant, changing rooms.

There is a lift and escalator up to the first floor where there is a public restaurant which I can get to but the staff restaurant, toilets, changing room, lockers are up a further flight of stairs with no lift access.

Arthuritis I’m sorry you’ve got such a shit employer. I don’t know how you can change that, I wish I did.

@Arthuritis
Your contributions on this thread seem to totally ignore the fact (and it is fact) that men have had and still retain the privilege and power in society.

I despise anyone wanting to better their own position at the cost to someone else.
But don't you see that often this is exactly what has to happen to achieve equality where resources are rare or limited? Just a basic example, if women want to be represented equally in Parliament and in cabinet positions then this means that less men will get the opportunity to serve in these posts. There has to effectively be a demotion of men as a class to promote women as a class to equalise things and redress the current inequality. Of course where there is the opportunity to just "expand the pie" as such then this should be done, but sometimes realistically this won't be the case and men should be appoprtioned an equal split of the pie which may well be less than they're accustomed to. I see a phrase repeated on MN frequently which I can't quite remember properly but encapsulates this theory really well and is basically along the lines of "for the over privileged equality will feel like a demotion".

Also the ignorant comment that facilities that have historically been privately funded for the sole use of men should be able to retain their single sex status whilst women should fund their own... I just find this baffling in the context that women have been subjugated and discriminated against for literally all of history and therefore women would have been (and arguably still are) less able to raise money to build these kinds of facilities than men.
Men have a massive unfair head start on women that they have achieved through repressing us and to now pretend that women should be capable of effortlessly making up all of this lost ground is exceedingly naïve.

imo, If a disabled child needs to go swimming supported by a carer of the opposite sex, then the facilities that should be closed should be those for the child's sex
i.e. close the men's for a disabled boy, the women's for a disabled girl.

Obviously, the best solution by far is a separate room with cubicles (which could also help parents taking an NT child of the opposite sex at the "intermediate" age of 8-12)

*So why do you think you have the right to tell other women they’re wrong?

Are you so supremely arrogant you think your opinions are the absolute?*

But when women have a view different to yours they're belittled or told that they are men.

How is that any better?

My opinion is no better or more valid than anyone else's.

But, as a woman, I am entitled to hold that opinion without being told that I am a man.

BigChocFrenzy that’s what I’ve been saying too.

But, as a woman, I am entitled to hold that opinion without being told that I am a man

I agree.

They do have a day....

imo, If a disabled child needs to go swimming supported by a carer of the opposite sex, then the facilities that should be closed should be those for the child's sex

For sure.

I think the situation described was complicated by the addition of a younger sibling of the opposite sex.

There was no easy answer.

The only solution was for one group to share for a few minutes.

Feed me coffee. My whole point is WHY ? Why do Snyder organisations feel the need to segregate the sexes men’s day/women’s day I was actually talking about a phyicsl day at a leisure centre where it was open to women only not some silly virtual day invented by fuck knows who!!!

Crazydog, do you think that women have full equality in society and in the work place?

NRTFT but what I gather and agree with OP is..for eg, women organising women only bike rides etc is women doing it for women, women can do it without a man etc etc..fine. BUT if men organized men only bike rides then it's sexist. Some women are very hyprocitical in these situations

Do you think there are anny issues which affect men or women disproportionately that need to be addressed?

Arthuritis If the facility had to be closed, including because of younger siblings of the opposite sex,
I would still say the primary purpose is to enable the disabled child to swim,
hence imo fairest to briefly close the facilities for their sex, to enable this.

I appreciate others may have different, maybe better, proposals

My proposal avoids the current situation of it usually being women being inconvenienced, since women are usually the carers
Deciding based on sex of the disabled child / person avoids this

Some women are very hyprocitical in these situations

But men aren’t?

My proposal avoids the current situation of it usually being women being inconvenienced, since women are usually the carers
Deciding based on sex of the disabled child / person avoids this

Yes.

BertrandRussell. Goodness me no, but we are getting there, it is the segregation that I think is holding us back, how many times do I have to say this, I feel that being singled out makes us look like vulnerable needy people not equal human beings.

Sisgal- the point is that most motorbike rides are men only!. The idea of women only things is to encourage women to do things they don’t usually do.

@Bumpitybumper

I guess that my issue is that in talking about "men" we assume that ALL men are the same ie benefit from male privileges, control resources, are strong, potentially a threat to women etc.

Obviously that isn't true.

I find it really difficult to accept that in a situation of true imbalance

So eg

A profoundly disabled boy

And a healthy, female CEO

that the woman's rights in this instance over ride those of the boy's just because, ignoring all other factors, she is female and he is male.

I just don't get it.

If you look at performance data in schools the group underperforming the most are white working class boys. Not girls, not BME groups.

Yet we talk about segregating girls especially for STEM subjects so that they aren't downtrodden by male egos whilst ignoring the fact that those with the worst outcomes are male.

I just can't see this as black and white - that all women... and all men...

crazy my friend is muslim. Without a womens only session at her private gym and womens only swimming at her council pool she could not enjoy such activities.
I dont agree with the restrictions her religion imposes but the women only sessions means she is not losing out or disadvantaged.

that the woman's rights in this instance over ride those of the boy's just because, ignoring all other factors, she is female and he is male

The woman’s right to use the swimming pool don’t override the boy’s in this instance though.

The gender of the person changing dictates which changing room should be used.