To think women’s rights are actually bad for women

[crazydoglady6867]

I am sure I will get shot down for this but here goes:

I really think that women wanting and largely getting EQUALITY is the best thing that is happening in modern times. What I have an issue with is women wanting to be better than men, wanting more rights and with girls/women only groups sports events etc we are actually just segregating ourselves and making men feel ostracised in some situations which is making them feel they need to gain back this “power” they feel they should have over women.
I am in a bike group who have a ladies section and they are just recently going a bit OTT over the women riders and making them more inclusive than the men really, they have special ride outs for them but men are not allowed to have a male only one. Etc etc...

You can see where I am going with this, and I am happy to change my mind in how I feel if posters come up with a reasonable debate into why I am wrong here.

I want to be thought of as equal to my male counterparts I don’t feel I need to have special running races they can’t run in or special groups my son can’t join or special days to celebrate my gender.

I remember a sketch in the 70’s on the Two Ronnies with Diana Dors in it called “the worm has turned” and thinking yeah as if that will ever happen, well people I can honestly say I am getting a bit worried for our men.

I know MN has a good proportion of man haters but you can’t all be like that, am I really the only one who feels like this.

Before removing more rights from women to appease men, shouldn’t we be trying to gain actual equality instead of token gestures?

Men can walk down the street in the dark without being worried about being raped by women.
Men can have their sporting teams celebrated and make millions of pounds from it, while women's football teams and the like are largely ignored.
Men can go back to work soon after having a child without being questioned about their choices.
Men/fathers don't have to work for free for over two months of the year compared to their female/mother counterparts
But hey, your women's only cycling group sounds damn opressive.

I dislike all the segregation too OP. I don't need or want to be treated as special

It isn’t compulsory to use.

But how great that it’s there for people who do want it.

Your posts make it extremely clear you prioritise the rights of other groups of people ahead of women, @arthuritis.

I have to say, in the instance of the changing room thread, I can’t see why a planned closure of the male changing room (because it was a male getting changed) for a short period in order to prevent the boy being unable to access the facilities would be a problem.

The point being it is a male needing to change and a male using the facilities. Therefore it is the male changing room that could be closed for two periods of what? 10 minutes, in order to allow the boy to do what he needs to do.

Sounds reasonable to me.

babysharksmummy - i am female and dont worry about getting raped by man (or woman) walking home at night. I think that is some personal phobia you have there.

@BertrandRussell
The majority of men don’t play video games
Nor do they use prostitutes
You’ve obviously had a bad experience of men.you hate men, we get it, don’t derail a thread by talking shite

starzig Thankyou

I do really appreciate that but the opening paragraph states this

you employ anyone (however short the period) you must ‘so far as is reasonably
practicable’, provide adequate and appropriate welfare facilities for them while they
are at work.
‘Welfare facilities’ are those that are necessary for the well-being of your
employees, such as washing, toilet, rest and changing facilities,

Men can have their sporting teams celebrated and make millions of pounds from it, while women's football teams and the like are largely ignored

Prime example of this being a male journalist castigating Nicola Sturgeon for spending £1.2 million on women’s football, and the women’s national team. Whole article calling her out and decrying her.

Fast forward to the Scottish National Women’ Team being the first Scottish football team to qualify for a World Cup in 20 years, and same journalist is all over it. How wonderful, how progressive of Nicola to invest, how great that the women have managed this!

What a dick.

^Because men can only have it if the woman agrees.

So in the previous post a man wanted to take paternity leave but his wife wouldn't share her maternity leave with him.

Men only have 2 weeks paternity leave.

Other than that maternity leave can be shared between the partners, if they agree.

So men don't have their own entitlement.^

Just think for a second..when that legislation came in to being, is it predominantly women in control of governments, criminal justice and law making?

No?. Then men can sort this out can't they?

So they must provide it

This means you must provide such facilities unless it is clearly
unreasonable in terms of time, trouble, cost and physical difficulty.

Sadly they don't have to provide these facilities if it costs too much or the building is physically unsuitable.

In which case any disabled person has to miss out?

Arthuritis unless it involves considerable expense. Is there no room at all for you to have a changing area you can access without considerable expense? Nothing?

i am female and dont worry about getting raped by man (or woman) walking home at night

You can’t get raped by a woman.

The majority of men don’t play video games
Nor do they use prostitutes
You’ve obviously had a bad experience of men.you hate men, we get it, don’t derail a thread by talking shite

Hang on. Men playing video games is an example of male negativity? Bertrand didn’t say that at all.

The thing is, men want women to organise all this for them.
As a lot of PPs have said, the men will be fine. Women only things are needed because a lot of men are trash and like to intimidate women. Sometimes they don't even know they are doing it.
When women can walk down the street in the dark without being scared, without being blamed for their own assaults, when they can walk past buildong sites without tensing up as they know they'll be shouted at, when women can get into a taxi without being asked invasive questions every time. Then we'll have equality.

In which case any disabled person has to miss out?

It’s worth checking what constitutes reasonable and if they’re even trying tbh.

Hen

My colleague has just returned from 12 months mat leave after having her first child.
Before she had the baby she said that her and her DH would share the leave, her the first 6 months him the last.
It didnt happened. She admitted that she underestimated what a toll childbirth and BF would be on her body and mental exhaustion. She also said that although her DH is an attentive dad and good husband she knew deep down that she would not only have a full day at work but would still have to do the lionshare of things at home while he was on pat leave.

I think sharing mat leave should be the womans decision given that we do all the actual effort of growing the baby and then giving birth.

I dislike all the segregation too OP. I don't need or want to be treated as special

*It isn’t compulsory to use.

But how great that it’s there for people who do want it.*

That is the whole point of this thread, I personally don’t think it is great for those who want to use it, I don’t think it is doing women any favours.

And now we are right back to the beginning of the thread😂

Because a small number of women make up allegations against men and when that happens his life is ruined.

I know someone this happened to. The woman was sent to prison and branded' evil' by the newspapers.
What wasn't brought up was the fact that the bloke in question and his mate who was involved, had been grooming teenage girls for a few years. This was one of the girls they groomed. Now while he might not have raped her on the day she accused him of it, they had certainly had sex with her when she was too young to consent properly. They had done the same with lots of teenage girls -they were in a position of power-think youth leader-and they did it all the time. lots of other adults knew and did nothing.
The mate ended up getting caught because he raped a boy and that was what got him on the sex offenders register in the end. original bloke got off scott free.

The woman in question had her life ruined by the whole being groomed and raped thing but you know-the poor man having to go through a court case.

There might be women who randomly make up shit to be evil but i bet your bottom dollar that most times and in most cases it's not clear cut.

crazydoglady6867 There are dozens of branches of feminism and one is not the warped view of the other. They have different perspectives and approaches to issues girls and women face in society. There is no one feminist view of this or any other situation.
Outside of that, you won't get a 'majority' view, you'll get self-selected opinions. Personally, I'm all for boys and men having spaces, having a day or sessions at the leisure centre alongside spaces and days/sessions for girls and women. I find a far bigger issue is finding men who will organize that long-term and I do think boys sometimes miss out because men won't do that as often as women do it for women and girls (maybe because many hobby spaces are seen as male-only by default). It's an issue but I don't get blaming women that it's there.

I've seen no evidence that having the option for single-sex spaces and facilities and groups perpetuates the concept of vulnerability or that being in mixed-sex spaces is automatically more empowering. Sure, maybe a specific group might but as a whole? Some find single-sex spaces more empowering, freer and more fun and I don't see how any of that or having it as an option is bad. I say it a lot - there is space and there are benefits for both mixed and single sex options and we need more and to help people do that, not to snipe people who are putting forth the energy, the time, the money in these cash-strapped times to make groups and businesses. If you think there is a gap, make your own and see if 'the majority' prefer it - I think you'll find different people want different things.

I live in a city which has a variety of community centres and events based on heritage, disabilities, hobbies... would you say my running a hobby and discussion group for disabled people perpetuates the idea that we're vulnerable and we need wider group? Is my local art centre running a group for teens to explore art techniques going to make them feel vulnerable and that they need to open to all ages? Or could you get that some of us choose and get a lot out of being able to have discussions and experiences with people who we have something in common with? Same holds true when it comes to sex.

“@BertrandRussell
The majority of men don’t play video games
Nor do they use prostitutes
You’ve obviously had a bad experience of men.you hate men, we get it, don’t derail a thread by talking shite”

would you care to comment on all the other points?

YABVU. To get anywhere near equality we need to centre women

That is the whole point of this thread, I personally don’t think it is great for those who want to use it, I don’t think it is doing women any favours

So why do you think you have the right to tell other women they’re wrong?

Are you so supremely arrogant you think your opinions are the absolute?

Are you saying to a woman who has been abused that she’s doing it wrong by accessing women only spaces?

1. Take full responsibility for their fair share of domestic work and childcare.
2. Challenge sexist/ misogynist/violent talk and behaviour every time they see it and wherever they see it*
3. Stop using prostitutes.
4. Challenge sexist work practices-for example making sure that any panel, board or committee they are on at least represents the sex balance of the organization - if necessary refusing to go on it if it isn't.
5. Stop watching porn.
6. Stop buying and playing sexist video games, and films that don't pass the Bedschel test.
7. Watch Nanette weekly to keep their minds focussed.
8. Think about how they parent their boys, and remember that they are the next generation of men. And that they are the man their children will learn about relationships from.
9) Make sure that they acknowledge, and let their children see them acknowledge, the contribution their wife or partner makes to the family. This is particularly important when she is a SAHP.

A few are missing the point I think.

Bertrand isn’t saying all men do these things. She’s saying the ones who are the problem do some or all of them. And she’s right.

The men who already do/don’t do the things needed aren’t the problem. But the ones who do are, and it’s up to other men to make the actions which are misogynistic socially unacceptable.

So no joke texts about raping women, no porn being sent round a school or workplace or group of mates, no standard misogynistic language used, no laughing about who went to a prostitute at the weekend or had a threesome with a woman far too drunk to consent.

Or that’s my interpretation anyway, sorry if I’ve spoken wrongly for you Bertrand