To think women’s rights are actually bad for women

[crazydoglady6867]

I am sure I will get shot down for this but here goes:

I really think that women wanting and largely getting EQUALITY is the best thing that is happening in modern times. What I have an issue with is women wanting to be better than men, wanting more rights and with girls/women only groups sports events etc we are actually just segregating ourselves and making men feel ostracised in some situations which is making them feel they need to gain back this “power” they feel they should have over women.
I am in a bike group who have a ladies section and they are just recently going a bit OTT over the women riders and making them more inclusive than the men really, they have special ride outs for them but men are not allowed to have a male only one. Etc etc...

You can see where I am going with this, and I am happy to change my mind in how I feel if posters come up with a reasonable debate into why I am wrong here.

I want to be thought of as equal to my male counterparts I don’t feel I need to have special running races they can’t run in or special groups my son can’t join or special days to celebrate my gender.

I remember a sketch in the 70’s on the Two Ronnies with Diana Dors in it called “the worm has turned” and thinking yeah as if that will ever happen, well people I can honestly say I am getting a bit worried for our men.

I know MN has a good proportion of man haters but you can’t all be like that, am I really the only one who feels like this.

I don't see any man - hating at all. I see women who recognise entitled sexist behavior. Only somebody who has internalised the patriarchy sees that as man-hating.

I agree that it's ludicrous to worry about ''our men''. Never read anything more confused. Men have their issues such as high rates of suicide but feminism would help men too. Less responsibility to ''provide'', less pressure to be an alpha male, more freedom to express their feelings, freedom to be something other than the workaholic male. Men need feminism.

Get angry with the right people.

Yes this in bucket loads.

But what is the answer where there is no space for a disabled changing room?

It is rare I grant you but in older buildings there may not be provision.

In that instance is it right that a disabled person is denied access then because others don't want to share?

And tbh I was arguing for either then men OR the women to share their changing room.

It just seemed that unless or until a separate disabled changing room was created it wasn't ok to say that a disabled person, with an opposite sex carer, couldn't use the facilities.

Men have their issues such as high rates of suicide but feminism would help men too. Less responsibility to ''provide'', less pressure to be an alpha male, more freedom to express their feelings, freedom to be something other than the workaholic male. Men need feminism

Yes! I actually work (volunteering) with a veteran support charity and have been saying exactly this. All agree that it is toxic masculinity at the root of most of the problems.

On the contrary, I'd say that the BBC publishes a disproportionate number of female on male violence stories, compared with what actually happened in 'real life'.

For two reasons. 1) their headline news pages on the website are much smaller than the average newspaper so they only publish the really eye catching stories. Women are murdered by men so often that it barely even makes the news. Whereas a female murderer is comparatively unusual, so it is a talking point and almost certain to be reported. And 2) any male offender who self identifies as female is automatically reported as being a woman (even if the self ID only occurred after the crime was committed).

But what is the answer where there is no space for a disabled changing room?

Make space, it’s required by law.

In that instance is it right that a disabled person is denied access then because others don't want to share?

That’s not fair, it’s not saying women don’t want to share. The disabled person is denied access because the company have not provided disabled facilities. Not because women don’t want to share.

It just seemed that unless or until a separate disabled changing room was created it wasn't ok to say that a disabled person, with an opposite sex carer, couldn't use the facilities

It’s not. Which is why the law states that disabled facilities must be provided.

yetalk shite. I don’t think they are a waste of time I think organisations and businesses have just got it wrong that’s all and it isn’t doing women any favours. Read my posts and you will see that is what I am saying.

Well then say that the organisations are misunderstanding and bastardising women’s rights? Not that women’s rights are bad for women because men misunderstood them.

@BakedBeans47

but @arthuritis thought it should be down to women to forego their right to dignity and privacy to remedy the situation.

No that isn't true at all. I said either the men or the women should share.

Some other posters argued that it wasn't right for the mum to have to change in the men's.

I think 1 or the other room be closed. Not at all that it should be only the women.

If you insist on bringing up my previous posts at least have the courtesy not to misrepresent me.

Nice way to derail this thread by the way.

Turning it into a TAAT

YeTalkShiteHen your tone is coming across as very bossy, I will agree my title is a little misleading but you should not adopt that tone with people.

^Arthuritis

Men as a class could stop it all in a second
How?

Any man that I know doesn't agree with mistreating women (or mistreating anyone in fact). They don't put women down when they speak, they don't belittle them, they certainly don't condone rape.

How do they, as a class, stop this?

How do we, as women, stop other women from committing crimes?

What do I do, as a woman, to change other women?^

You're getting confused about individuals and 'men as a class' again.

LOL it's so obvious @arthuritis is a man.

The posts are laughably misogynistic. And I cannot take him seriously.

arthuritis

Because my father, son, husband, uncles aren't rapists...

How do YOU know? Serious question.

arthuritis

I don't know any woman who has been raped or sexually assaulted.

Jesus fucking wept. I despair, I really do!

Me trying to shut you down with pathetic insults?? Yes I am because you are fucking me right off.

Go start your own man-supporting, man-loving thread, @arthuritis and leave us be to discuss how most women have a difficult life compared to men,and WAAAAAY more obstacles in their way, and WAAAAY more problems with the opposite sex.

Less responsibility to ''provide'', less pressure to be an alpha male, more freedom to express their feelings, freedom to be something other than the workaholic male. Men need feminism.

But for that to happen we would need true equality.

As PPs have said - if a man wants to take paternity leave he can only do that if the woman agrees to share her maternity leave.

Give men equal and separate paternity leave. Not dependent on the women allowing him to take it.

There's wrong on both sides.

It's just on these threads the opinion is that all men are wrong and all women are right.

It's just polarising

crazydoglady6867 bossy? Because you decided that the whole idea of women’s rights should be shelved because men you know dislike it? If you say so.

I’d say labelling a woman bossy because you dislike her view is pretty telling.

Are you going to call my hysterical next?

Stop trying to pretend you are not a man, and that you have a 'husband' @arthuritis

your tone is coming across as very bossy

Hush now ladies. You’ve talked enough. Off you pop.

JacquesHammer exactly how I read it too.

Make space, it’s required by law.
No it isn't.

Only reasonable adjustments are required.

If a space can't be provided because it's too expensive or can't be done (say in a listed building) they don't have to.

So in that case is it ok to say anyone with a disability can't come in?

In my opinion no but that makes me a misogynist apparently.

Give men equal and separate paternity leave. Not dependent on the women allowing him to take it.

And do you have a solution that doesn’t involve removing a woman’s right to 12 month’s maternity leave? I can’t think of one.

So anyone that doesn't agree with you is a man?

Is that it?

I'm not a man but it just shows how hateful some women can be doesn't it?

I don't conform to your view of how a woman should think or speak so therefore I'm a man?

Ok. What does that make you then?

Someone who insults and belittles another woman? What does that make you?

*months’

No it isn't

Yes. It is.

Only reasonable adjustments are required

Providing the means for a disabled person to make “full use of the facilities” is a reasonable adjustment. Expecting a physically adult male to use the women’s changing area, or his adult female carer to use the men’s is exactly the kind of situation where reasonable adjustments must be made.

I think that you’re allowing the organisation excuses not to meet their responsibilities, while expecting women to compromise their own space.

This is the information I’ve found on disability law.

And do you have a solution that doesn’t involve removing a woman’s right to 12 month’s maternity leave? I can’t think of one.

Yep. Give men 12 months paternity leave AND women too. Both have the same amount. Neither loses so that the other gains.

So in that case is it ok to say anyone with a disability can't come in?

It’s the place not providing the disabled facilities saying that!

As always, when someone starts a thread claiming women's rights are bad for women,
they really mean they think it's bad for men

In fact, some of the most serious problems for boys & men would be helped by feminism

e.g. lower the male suicide rates by teaching boys from a young age that it's ok to discuss feelings, to cry when sad

Some male suicides are because they can't cope alone with ordinary selfcare;
hence parents not teaching / expecting boys to be able to cook, clean the house, wash clothes etc are actually harming their future life prospects

Segregated remedial classes for this could be very helpful, as after a certain age, many boys would be too embarassed to attend classes on cookery, or self-care, or expressing emotions in a more healthy way

Men & especially boys are at far more risk of serious sexual assault by men than by women
and anonymity for rape victims is just as essential for male victims to come forward as for women victims

*Nice way to derail this thread by the way.

Turning it into a TAAT*

I made a passing observation that you had displayed misogynistic views on an another thread. It’s actually you who expanded further in the first instance.