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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think women’s rights are actually bad for women

999 replies

crazydoglady6867 · 16/09/2018 08:05

I am sure I will get shot down for this but here goes:

I really think that women wanting and largely getting EQUALITY is the best thing that is happening in modern times. What I have an issue with is women wanting to be better than men, wanting more rights and with girls/women only groups sports events etc we are actually just segregating ourselves and making men feel ostracised in some situations which is making them feel they need to gain back this “power” they feel they should have over women.
I am in a bike group who have a ladies section and they are just recently going a bit OTT over the women riders and making them more inclusive than the men really, they have special ride outs for them but men are not allowed to have a male only one. Etc etc...

You can see where I am going with this, and I am happy to change my mind in how I feel if posters come up with a reasonable debate into why I am wrong here.

I want to be thought of as equal to my male counterparts I don’t feel I need to have special running races they can’t run in or special groups my son can’t join or special days to celebrate my gender.

I remember a sketch in the 70’s on the Two Ronnies with Diana Dors in it called “the worm has turned” and thinking yeah as if that will ever happen, well people I can honestly say I am getting a bit worried for our men.

I know MN has a good proportion of man haters but you can’t all be like that, am I really the only one who feels like this.

OP posts:
BakedBeans47 · 16/09/2018 11:44

@meteorgarden what’s your solution then, other than removing the right of a woman to take maternity leave? Which women NEED, because of going through childbirth, breastfeeding etc. That’s the only way round it that I can see. Hardly progressive.

JacquesHammer · 16/09/2018 11:45

But in the OPs case she was asking why the club can have a mixed group, a women only group but not a men only group

It would help if the OP had answered many of the questions regarding it wouldn’t it?

I can only assume it’s utter nonsense.

treaclesoda · 16/09/2018 11:48

I'm not responsible for crimes committed by other women. It isn't my responsibility to change them.

Do you not think that's a bit ironic? Whether we like it or not, we are all collectively held responsible by society in general for the fact that some women lie about rape, and some women use their children as a pawn to hurt their unfaithful ex husbands. The fact that it is actually a very very small number who does both those things doesn't stop the rest of us suffering for their behaviour.

TerfAndSerf · 16/09/2018 11:49
BakedBeans47 · 16/09/2018 11:50

I haven’t brought up your posting history, nor did I criticise you for doing that. All I did was make a passing observation based on your cumulative posting. Each thread on here doesn’t exist in a vacuum, you build up an opinion on what people are like and their views from across the board.

You say you don’t despise women, but you are very keen to put their rights at the bottom of the pile. It smacks of at the very least not having much respect for women to me. Why is that?

Original poster
crazydoglady6867 · 16/09/2018 11:51

jaques there are so many posts what to you what do you want the answer to specifically

OP posts:
Writersblock2 · 16/09/2018 11:52

I reckon OP should post this in the feminism forum and sit back and wait to be educated.

itdoesntmatterwhereimfrom · 16/09/2018 11:53

So many feminists in one place and no mention of breakfast cereals!!

You've come along way.

Original poster
crazydoglady6867 · 16/09/2018 11:53

baked beans. Are you asking me that question as I don’t follow?

OP posts:
Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 11:53

In response to BakedBeans47 criticism of me

Why don’t you care about women and their rights? This is the second thread this week I’ve observed your misogyny on. Men, disabled people, their rights seem to trump women’s for you in all circumstances. Why is that? Why do you despise your own sex

@YeTalkShiteHen

There was a thread where the OP was discussing whether it was right for a disabled 16yr old boy to be in the female changing room with his mum. To be clear there was no disabled changing room only male and female.

The prevailing argument was that under no circumstances should a male be in the female changing room (unless under 8yrs old) even if that meant that the disabled boy could not use the facilities at all.

It was unacceptable even for the changing room to be closed until he had left because it's a safe female space and women should not have to make way for men.

That is what @BakedBeans47 is referring to - In her opinion I favour men and those with a disability over women and therefore I am misogynistic.

POAlockdown · 16/09/2018 11:54

^Arthuritis

How about all the men get together and think 'you know what, we rape and abuse women so frequently that there are bound to be a tiny amount of false allegations so maybe if we stop raping and abusing so much, that might not happen'.

Because my father, son, husband, uncles aren't rapists and are not responsible for what other men do unless they see it or hear views that are against women. In that case they do need to stand up against it.

But they should not be paying the cost for some unknown man's crime. How can you even think that is rational?

Are we all responsible for Rose West or Myra Hindley? Should we spend the rest of our lives paying for what they did?^

You're talking about individuals when I'm not. Men as a class hold all the cards, they have the money, the time, the resources, the positions in society, government on and on.

Women as a class do not. We are the ones oppressed by men as a class.

So why would we be fretting about the men falsely accused of common male crimes?on an individual or group level, why would women have to worry about that?

Men as a class could stop it all in a second. Stop being violent, stop raping, stop harassing and abusing. If it never happened, a false allegation wouldn't matter. Women can't stop any of this.

BakedBeans47 · 16/09/2018 11:55

Sorry no, OP, it was @arthuritis, I forgot to tag her.

Elephantinacravat · 16/09/2018 11:55

Are we all responsible for Rose West or Myra Hindley? Should we spend the rest of our lives paying for what they did?

Invoking Myra Hindley and Rose West: BINGO!

A little game for you Arthuritis. Go on the BBC news app every day for a month. Note down all of the stories of male violence against men, male violence against women, female violence against men, female violence against women. Include sexual and physical violence. Tot it all up and see what you can see.

And then come back and tell people that feminism has gone too far.

YeTalkShiteHen · 16/09/2018 11:55

As the mother of a disabled child (granted younger than the boy in the thread you mention) my argument there would have been to go directly to the centre in question and ask why they weren’t providing disabled facilities.

So to me, that wasn’t a women’s rights argument, it should have been a disability rights argument.

Why wasn’t this boy and anyone else with a disability provided for, as is required (rightly) by law?

Original poster
crazydoglady6867 · 16/09/2018 11:57

writers. I don’t want a warped feminist view I want a view of the majority. I know what a feminist would say to my post don’t I.

OP posts:
BakedBeans47 · 16/09/2018 11:58

Or alternatively @arthuritis because you personally had no problem with that situation you dismissed the feelings and rights of women to get changed in a sex segregated space without a male present.

Original poster
crazydoglady6867 · 16/09/2018 11:59

elephant. But that is just the BBC that is not real life. The BBC are the biggest culprits of what I am trying to get over here😩

OP posts:
YeTalkShiteHen · 16/09/2018 11:59

I also wouldn’t take my post puberty male child into a women’s changing room. I would be profoundly angry that disabled facilities weren’t available, and I would challenge that, loudly.

However, just as I get extremely angry about disabled toilets being changed to “gender neutral” rather than an extra space being created for people who identify as gender neutral (or whatever gender they identify with), I do not think that the women’s changing rooms, designed and created as a female only space, were the place for the boy who was being failed by an organisation that wasn’t ensuring disabled facilities were available.

The anger is focussed in the wrong place, and it shouldn’t be women or disabled people who have to give up their spaces.

Get angry with the right people.

Elephantinacravat · 16/09/2018 11:59

Do you not think that's a bit ironic? Whether we like it or not, we are all collectively held responsible by society in general for the fact that some women lie about rape, and some women use their children as a pawn to hurt their unfaithful ex husbands. The fact that it is actually a very very small number who does both those things doesn't stop the rest of us suffering for their behaviour.

Exactly. Just watch how the behaviour of Roxanne Pallett will be used over and over again as 'proof' that another man, in a completely different situation, in a completely different time and place, cannot have beaten up his girlfriend because WOMEN LIE.

Ofew · 16/09/2018 11:59

I don’t want to stop women joining in with stuff I want women to be empowered to join in not to be made to feel different enough to need a special group to feel confident, I want them to be taught to stand up for themselves in a Male dominated environment

I don't think any of us man hating feminists would disagree with that. But we also ask why so many environments are male dominated in the first place? (hint - not women's fault), what is is that disempowers women? (hint - not women) and, crucially, we fight for the end to male dominated "environments".

YeTalkShiteHen · 16/09/2018 12:00

crazydoglady6867 I’ll be honest, I’m failing to see why a motorbike club being a bit daft is a reason to decide women’s rights aren’t worth the hassle?

Arthuritis · 16/09/2018 12:00

Men as a class could stop it all in a second
How?

Any man that I know doesn't agree with mistreating women (or mistreating anyone in fact). They don't put women down when they speak, they don't belittle them, they certainly don't condone rape.

How do they, as a class, stop this?

How do we, as women, stop other women from committing crimes?

What do I do, as a woman, to change other women?

BakedBeans47 · 16/09/2018 12:01

I agree @shite (I also have a son with ASN albeit he can get changed on his own) but @arthuritis thought it should be down to women to forego their right to dignity and privacy to remedy the situation.

Hence why with her posts on this thread too it’s not hard to see the priority she attaches to women and their rights, ie none.

Elephantinacravat · 16/09/2018 12:01

elephant. But that is just the BBC that is not real life. The BBC are the biggest culprits of what I am trying to get over here

I don't understand what you mean here? Could you explain? What do you mean it's not 'real life'?

In any case, it doesn't have to be the BBC news, I was just picking a generic news app.

YeTalkShiteHen · 16/09/2018 12:02

BakedBeans47 I think that’s it isn’t it? I’ve found this as a woman and as a disabled person, that it’s women and disabled people who are always, always expected to just suck it up. When in actual fact, if women’s rights and disability rights were anything like what they should be, we wouldn’t be having to have this conversation.