To think women’s rights are actually bad for women

[crazydoglady6867]

I am sure I will get shot down for this but here goes:

I really think that women wanting and largely getting EQUALITY is the best thing that is happening in modern times. What I have an issue with is women wanting to be better than men, wanting more rights and with girls/women only groups sports events etc we are actually just segregating ourselves and making men feel ostracised in some situations which is making them feel they need to gain back this “power” they feel they should have over women.
I am in a bike group who have a ladies section and they are just recently going a bit OTT over the women riders and making them more inclusive than the men really, they have special ride outs for them but men are not allowed to have a male only one. Etc etc...

You can see where I am going with this, and I am happy to change my mind in how I feel if posters come up with a reasonable debate into why I am wrong here.

I want to be thought of as equal to my male counterparts I don’t feel I need to have special running races they can’t run in or special groups my son can’t join or special days to celebrate my gender.

I remember a sketch in the 70’s on the Two Ronnies with Diana Dors in it called “the worm has turned” and thinking yeah as if that will ever happen, well people I can honestly say I am getting a bit worried for our men.

I know MN has a good proportion of man haters but you can’t all be like that, am I really the only one who feels like this.

Do you live in lala land?

In fact...
You're a man, probably, so I'd say yes, you have.

@InfiniteCurve
It was Ian Huntley not Ian Brady.

I truly don't know what the answer is.

But is seems beyond unfair that an innocent man will have to carry that allegation with him whilst the woman who has made the allegation walks away and carries on.

What if she goes on to make similar accusations elsewhere? What if your son or husband becomes the victim next time?

I don't know the answer. I guess we need to look at how necessary it is to make these allegations known? So does it work to deter dangerous people from working with vulnerable people?

Not sure. I have an issue with exactly how helpful a DBS check is anyway as all it proves is that on the day it was issued there was nothing to disclose doesn't mean that you have never done anything nor that you are of good character.

If women want their own club, of any sort, great. Set one up. If enough women want to do it then they will join

Of course. But the men tend to have the facilities. Are you saying they shouldn’t be shared?

So rather than approaching Man Rugby Club and discussing shared use of facilities, women should find some space and funds to build their own?

But is seems beyond unfair that an innocent man will have to carry that allegation with him whilst the woman who has made the allegation walks away and carries on

Do you think every rapist is convicted? Honestly? And that women who have been subjected to the grossest invasion of privacy there is just pick up and get on with it, forgetting it ever happened?

We don’t.

What if she goes on to make similar accusations elsewhere? What if your son or husband becomes the victim next time?

Again, flip that round. When a rapist isn’t convicted, what happens to the next woman he forces himself on? What if it’s your mother, sister, daughter?

How on earth do you know that? The reality is, you probably do know someone who has been raped.

Maybe I do. But I am not aware of it.

The same could be therefore be said of the person that said I don't know of any man that has been falsely used so therefore I don't believe it happens.

Not having personal knowledge or experience of something doesn't mean that it doesn't happen does it?

Do you genuinely believe that as many women make false allegations as men commit rape? Genuine question.

In fact...
You're a man, probably, so I'd say yes, you have.

Am I? Ok then.

But is seems beyond unfair that an innocent man will have to carry that allegation with him whilst the woman who has made the allegation walks away and carries on.

How about all the men get together and think 'you know what, we rape and abuse women so frequently that there are bound to be a tiny amount of false allegations so maybe if we stop raping and abusing so much, that might not happen'.

Instead of women feeling they have to sort out 'protecting' accused men.

@YeTalkShiteHen

No I don't.

But I do worry that men are now starting to become the victims in some instances and some women are delighting in that fact.

And, as a woman who gave birth to a son, although as @Lweji has so confidently declared otherwise maybe I'm not, I fear for him.

These threads are always full of women declaring men as evil woman haters.

When anyone points out it isn't all men the reply is what are the good men doing about the bad then. Whatever happens or whatever is said all men are to blame, either directly or indirectly.

I'm not responsible for crimes committed by other women. It isn't my responsibility to change them.

why is that down to the men to fix?

Nobody said it is.

Yes they did say that. That in a traditionally male club a female only group is needed to attract women in.

So men are expected to move over to let women in? Why?

If women want to do the activity but don't want to join the men set up our own group. Or join the men.

Not even worth the energy. What an embarrassing OP.

@glintandglide

You’re gobsmacked, I’m glad, although you’re vlearly missing the point as that example highlights inequality perfectly.

The law says ‘parental leave must be able to be shared between both parents’ - Man says, oh good id like to stay home for a bit with my new child- Woman says no I’m having it - Governmant/ Law shrug their shoulders and say ‘well it’s her choice nothing we can do’.

An unhealthy relationship, maybe but where are his rights protected? Nowhere, mother is entitled to 12 months off work and father is ‘entitled’to whatever the mother is willing to give.

I’m gobsmacked that you can’t see the inequality here. As a feminist surely we should argue that both parents are equally entitled to X amount of months off and can offer it to the other only if they want to. That would be fair. Not men hoping that their partner will give them some of their leave.

Women have all the power in that situation and to ignore that is ridiculous.

So rather than approaching Man Rugby Club and discussing shared use of facilities, women should find some space and funds to build their own?

Depends where the original funding came from.

Was it public money? Then yes, the men should share the facilities.

Did the men fund raise for it themselves? Then the women should fund raise for their own.

Actually seems to me we are kind of drifting from the main point of this thread: its outrageous title.
No- human beings having rights can not be a bad thing. Ffs.

So men are expected to move over to let women in? Why?

In what way are they expected to move over for men?

Presumably the club themselves have decided they want to make their club more attractive to females. What’s wrong with that? How does becoming more inclusive to women equal pushing men out?

Why don’t you care about women and their rights? This is the second thread this week I’ve observed your misogyny on. Men, disabled people, their rights seem to trump women’s for you in all circumstances. Why is that? Why do you despise your own sex?

When anyone points out it isn't all men the reply is what are the good men doing about the bad then. Whatever happens or whatever is said all men are to blame, either directly or indirectly.

It's not the blame..it's that they hold the power in 99% of situations. They have the resources and the power to effect change.

It's all in their hands so why would women (the oppressed class) have to help out?

*Depends where the original funding came from.

Was it public money? Then yes, the men should share the facilities.

Did the men fund raise for it themselves? Then the women should fund raise for their own*

Funny that you’re so vehement on behalf of a group who in my experience display nothing like the stance you’re ascribing to them.

Here’s how it went when we spoke to the rugby club

“We’d love to set up a women’s team”
“Cool, great idea. There are Mondays and Thursdays free for training”

We didn’t have any objection from a single male member/player/trustee of the club. This has been my experience at several clubs. Where we have received support, coaching, use of facilities etc.

Why are you suggesting men aren’t happy?

How about all the men get together and think 'you know what, we rape and abuse women so frequently that there are bound to be a tiny amount of false allegations so maybe if we stop raping and abusing so much, that might not happen'.

Because my father, son, husband, uncles aren't rapists and are not responsible for what other men do unless they see it or hear views that are against women. In that case they do need to stand up against it.

But they should not be paying the cost for some unknown man's crime. How can you even think that is rational?

Are we all responsible for Rose West or Myra Hindley? Should we spend the rest of our lives paying for what they did?

TRIGGER WARNING GRAPHIC DESCRIPTION OF VIOLENCE

But I do worry that men are now starting to become the victims in some instances and some women are delighting in that fact

I agree and it’s distinctly unpleasant. But whataboutery gets us nowhere.

I too have two sons, and a daughter. I worry for all of them, for different reasons.

I'm not responsible for crimes committed by other women. It isn't my responsibility to change them

Neither are we responsible for crimes committed by men, but the onus is always on women. Every time. So subtly sometimes that it isn’t even noticed.

For example, look at the reporting of any rape case, the comments surrounding what she wore, what she drank, where she went. There’s always a hint that it was somehow her fault, even if it’s implied rather than stated explicitly.

Or a case where a man murders his wife/partner. She was a spendthrift, or she nagged, or she insulted his masculinity. It’s there, every single time.

When my friend was murdered by a deviant stranger, the media referred to her “haphazard lifestyle”, her “naivety” and spoke of how she was too trusting, too friendly, too forward, too, too, too, as if any of what happened to her was her fault for being “too” something.

He took her, tortured and defiled her and then cut her into pieces for his own gratification. Then left her in a series of bins so we couldn’t find her.

Yet the media still, still sought to put some of the blame on her.

It’s everywhere.

Yes, there are problems where men are falsely accused, where women do make malicious allegations. They should be convicted, absolutely.

BUT what must never allowed to happen is the criminalisation of rape victims failed by a hapless and incompetent justice system. Not guilty doesn’t necessarily mean innocent, it means there wasn’t enough proof. Are we really going to risk jailing a woman, already violated, because of that?

And whenever this topic comes up, it is always, always to silence women trying to ensure that violence and rape of women is stopped. It is a separate issue, yet is used to drown out the women talking about the massive percentage of rape, murder and violence committed by men.

Because whether you like it or not, the statistics speak for themselves.

By all means, defend innocent men, I’ll join you. But don’t use them to silence women making a very valid, very important points.

gilead you should not just put that and run, it’s not embarrassing at all, I am not embarrassed and I posted it, don’t speak for me!

Why do you despise your own sex?

Because apparently I am a man according to a poster on here.

Seriously I don't despise women.

I despise anyone wanting to better their own position at the cost to someone else.

Sorry. I don't agree with a disabled person being pushed out in favour of a woman, solely because she is a woman.

And actually I got roundly criticised for bringing up someone's previous posting history but it's ok for you to do it?

Seems to me that these boards are full of double standards.

I agree that "fighting" men only leads to antagonism. worse outcomes for girls and the poor treatment of boys. I am a mother of a boy who has certainly had the rough end of a deal - but we are supposed to not care because he is a boy. BUT I think female equality and the severe treatment of male on female violence should be a given and I will continue to work for that as I have since the seventies

Sorry. I don't agree with a disabled person being pushed out in favour of a woman, solely because she is a woman

That’s an interesting example, can I ask why you used it? I’m a woman, with a disability, so I’m curious.

Why are you suggesting men aren’t happy?

I'm not. The OP is.

In your instance that was great. I'm guessing rugby is different because men and women can't play together can they?

But in the OPs case she was asking why the club can have a mixed group, a women only group but not a men only group.

So not the same as in your example.

Though your example is exactly how it should be isn't it?