Husband keeps turning up at where daughter lives, we own it, but surely we shouldn't be entitled to stop by?

[WhooooSaid]

Hi Mumsnet, our 24 year old daughter graduated a few months ago, we own a few different properties (that's our source of income/jobs). We always said when she graduated she could move into our smallest property and do her a 'deal' while she saves for her own mortgage. She contributes to all her bills and pays rent, but just a much cheaper rent than she would be.

I obviously treat it like it's her own place. I ask prior to arriving, don't feel entitled to a key (although she has given me one).

However, my husband feels a bit more entitled. He did insist on having a key, without DD really being able to say no although she said it's fine. However, he will frequently pop by and even enter with the key if she doesn't answer the Bell. He'll often arrive home and tell me "oh I sorted that out in (DD's name)'a kitchen so let her know" and im always like oh she didn't know? And he goes well no.

DD has spoken to me about this and has said she appreciates it's technically ours and she gets it cheaper but she would like to take the key off of her dad. He says if she wants to take the key off of him, she will need to pay full rent. Opinions please!?

She’s entitled to her privacy and he’s disregarding it. She’s an adult, not a 3 year old who has to do what he says. He might own the flat (don’t you BOTH own the flat?) but his daughter is not a possession that entitles him to behave any manner that he wishes. He is disrespecting her and honestly, he sounds like an overbearing d*&khead. Also why isn’t he listening to you about this? It’s very controlling and bordering on creepy old pervert.

@WhooooSaid

Do something about it now. Or his relationship with her is not going to survive, and by extension you'd may not either.

*yours

Okmaybenot my mind went there because that’s my experience of this type of creep. It actually makes my skin crawl.
A father or father figure type who does this.

Creepy Pervy controlling and weird are words I would use.

I'd be wondering why she didn't want to come home if she's tight for moment tbh, it's what many post grads do. Are your younger DC also girls? What is his relationship with them like?

When did he start being 'overprotective' possibly as she approached puberty? How has he reacted to her boyfriends?

I didn't tell my mum about my dad until I was mid 20's. He'd always been 'overprotective' as I approached puberty it became possessiveness and at 13 things started to become more sinister. I started blockading my bedroom door at night and avoiding being at home generally. He never liked any of my boyfriends and took great delight in pointing out any faults they had. I had a strict curfew which was more tightly enforced if he thought I was with a boy. He also made sure any boyfriends were petrified of him. I left home ASAP and never went back.

My mother would simply have described him as 'overprotective'. She still doesn't believe me about what happened.

OP, I don't think it's weird to charge your children rent. When I was first starting out in a big city, my parents had bought a place as a long-term investment/place to crash in the city.

I paid them a heavily subsidized rent, which covered the mortgage but not much beyond, and the bills were my own. They knew the place was being taken care of, and I was able to survive with my long-hours, low-paying job.

That said, they never would have thought of coming over without telling me first. If they had doneand worse, had done regularlyI would have left immediately. No savings was worth my loss of independence.

(Fwiw, I don't think he's being a perv. I do think he's being controlling and infantilizing and that it's very much not okay, but those undertones aren't necessarily there.)

(Which is not, for the record, to undermine anyone who's been in this situation with a father-figure who was being sexually inappropriate. I understand entirely that it's real for a lot of people.)

@Graphista

I think you're projecting massively here. I was the same age and didn't want to go home... I was an adult, I did not want to live with my parents. It's as simple as that. You want a life, you don't want to have to come home for a certain time or have family dinners or do as you're told. There is no nefarious reason.

I also felt the need to lock the bathroom door when my parents kept randomly coming round; simply because they would come in and wouldn't know if I was home or not so might walk into the bathroom. Nothing nefarious.

OP has no reason to think anything like that; her daughter currently talks to her about it and you really are pushing your own agenda here rather than looking at this situation independently from your own. If there were other red flags then I'd be right there with you... But this really seems to be a fad simply unable to let go and let her live her life. Not a sexual abuser trying to continue the abuse.

I haven't said that is what's definitely happening, but it's a possibility that shouldn't be ignored either.

Yes my personal experience informs my thought process as does anyone's.

But I'm not just basing my response on my own experience but on what the op has said.

At the very least it's controlling from a power dynamic perspective which IS deeply unhealthy and could lead to alienating the daughter.

Yes some graduates want independance after uni, but many do go home to save up money.

This dd isn't even being allowed true independence. It must be so anxiety inducing just never knowing when dad will let himself into her home - and he seems to never have good reason either just looking for excuses.

It's unhealthy and unnecessary whatever his intentions.

@Graphista

I agree with everything else you have said. I was this girl, as I said to the OP on my first post. But piling on the suspicion of sexual abuse when, in this instance, its not something that seems a possibility is just trying to create upset for nothing.

OP knows it's not good, and I think she just needed a wee push to do something about it. She's had that now. If she comes back and tells us a whole load of other stuff or he reacts in a really odd way then she can consider abuse. But don't force it down her throat.

My dad’s a bit like that too OP. I lived in a house belonging to my parents and he’d turn up and walk in. It was because it was his house, and my mother had to explain how it was inappropriate and unfair. Nothing creepy in it at all.
DH and I bought our house a few years ago and for months my dad was here working on renovations...we gave him a key etc. The problem was that when all the work was done, he’d come over and not knock...just use his key. He was so used to being here that the lines were blurred. I didn’t want to hurt his feelings so again, my mother explained it to him. It’s all good now.
You need to talk to your DH about it.

He has to stop, now. It is her home regardless of how cheap her rent is. He's being a twat. She can't have peaceful enjoyment if she never knows when he's going to let himself in, she has no privacy.

Tell him to stop. TELL him.

My mum did this when I first brought she (very generously I know) helped with my deposit but as it turned out she then felt she had equal rights to the flat as me. She would turn up and let her self in without warning she once booked a decorator to re do the lounge (I didn't want the lounge redoing she thought it was helpful) she seemed to view it as her place as well as mine. It's hard to describe unless you have lived it. But I know she was meaning well didn't stop it driving me mad to the point I sold up and brought a much cheaper place alone and she has never had a key since.

If I were you I would change the locks and he wouldn't get a key. Your daughter is a tenant in the same way any one else would be she deserves the same rights in the same way you expect her to treat the flat as others would. What you charge in rent is irrelevant in terms of her rights! As you say you own it 50:50 you get as much say as he does.

I'm not forcing anything! I'm simply pointing out that it's a possibility (and not even a far fetched one given its far more common than people realise).

Op does know the issue needs addressed. Tbh I'm surprised she felt the need to post, because it seems obvious to me and clearly others that he's out of order. Plus it sounds like they've been landlords for some time so they know the laws on this. The fact their daughter is currently the tenant is irrelevant.

Yuck.

Does he want to see his daughter naked? Seriously though you have to ask him this.

My FIL did this for about 3 weeks after we moved into one of his properties. It was completely innocent though. He just hadn't disconnected from us. He stopped when we asked.

I think that your husband should just phone,or text whenever he feels like going to your daughters place,not having a key to just go in, although sometimes a key might be essential in an emergency,.

He is a great Dad if he likes to do things in the flat for your daughter, but she needs her own space and needs to know when people are going to go to her place..

I would not like to comment on the money issues here.. its private. and I am sure that it can all be sorted out.

Dad is ensuring the your DD will be saving every penny towards true independence. There could be not be better motivator.

"DD has spoken to me about this and has said she appreciates it's technically ours and she gets it cheaper but she would like to take the key off of her dad. He says if she wants to take the key off of him, she will need to pay full rent. Opinions please!?"

Your husband is a prize pratt!

The lower rent is to help your daughter. Giving a lower rent but asking for a key so he can snoop about in her flat is decidedly unpleasant.

If I were being generous I might say he cares about her and wants to help but to be honest I think it is just deeply unpleasant.

I agree with AnoukSpirit that it is actually creepy.

"so we are doing it to help her out." So why the need to check up on her? Help her out, make sure all is OK with a quick phone call and offer help in the house by calling and talking to her.

"...maybe others would agree that it's kind of an extension to our home..." It's not, it's a property you own but rent to someone else, the fact you charge her less than you might charge someone else doesn't make it an extension of you home.

The fact she feels the need to lock the bathroom door tells you all you need to know. She is very uncomfortable and your husband needs to respect his daughter.

(I expect this is very hard to hear - it may be totally innocent but even if it is totally innocent it is making your daughter feel uncomfortable so a priority for both you and your husband is to end this. Pay for the locks to be changed and put her in charge of doing it then you keep the key for use in emergencies.)

If you have a tenancy agreement you are legally required to give 24hrs notice of any visit. This is an awful invasion of her privacy and incredibly controlling. I'd be so upset. If he wants to ruin their relationship he's going the right way about it. What if she has boyfriend over & your husband let's himself in. Mortifying.

What have you got on paper, OP? Either your DD is a legal tenant, in which case your H either backs off or finds himself prosecuted, or she isn't, in which case he may have the 'right' to stalk her and make sure she isn't having a sex life, but there's the risk that any friend of hers she tells that her dad just walks in unannounced will point out to her that this is abusive, controlling behaviour.

What do you think your H would do if DD changed the locks? What would he do if you supported her financially to move somewhere else?

Well good luck to him maintaining a relationship with her when she does get a place that gives her independence. Exactly!

Has he always been controlling?

Ask him how many other of your occupied properties he randomly lets himself into with his little key.

He needs to stop. This isn't how he treated the previous tenant, us it?

It won't sort him popping in while she is out, but might make her feel more like it is hers while she is home - a safety chain on the door. So she can put the chain on after she gets home, and a key won't be sufficient to let Dad in.

He sounds controlling and perhaps even a bully. "If you don't do what I say then I will punish you by going back on what I promised I would do....". To be honest, it actually sounds a bit creepy. She quite clearly at 24 wants her privacy to dance around the house naked or have a partner over...yet your husband is demanding the right to show up when he wants!