Thanks to many on Mumsnet, and MNHQ

[ArbitersCarbiters]

For showing your true colours.

I’ve been a member of Mumsnet on and off for almost 10 years. It holds a special place in my heart - it got me through the long nights with my DC, bumps in my career, the breakdown of my marriage and helping me finally confront the grief at becoming an orphan far too young. I gradually stopped posting on here precisely because I began to see how hostile a place it could be (and was) for women of colour, especially those who called out micro-aggressions and thinly-veiled racist/dehumanising behaviour.

I wish MNHQ had let my (now deleted) thread stand as it was the perfect example of what so many black women have to face everyday (albeit hidden behind a sheer facade of disingenuous naivety and inclusivity).

Instead, it was deleted. The irony of that is that when people claim so many posters on here are and can be hostile to black women and our experiences, the evidence of that hostility is lost forever, and so those same posters and others can claim that it never existed in the first place.

Perhaps seeing the vitriol in writing might help people understand the reality (and denial) of our day-to-day experiences.

Or not.

And right now, I’m verging towards not.

As you were 🤷🏾‍♀️

OkMaybeNot that’s heartbreaking. Your DD is 4 years old and she’s already learned that she can’t have her hair the way she wants because people won’t respect her right to bodily autonomy.

I bet her hair is absolutely gorgeous too. What a fucking shame that at 4 years old she’s already having to think about twats.

I'm really grateful to you for posting this and your original thread, Arbiters, not least because it's given my brain the best work out it's had for a long time.

The thing that struck me strongly was how perceptions and interpretations of racism have changed and become much more nuanced in my life time. What that means is that we desperately need people like you to challenge us and make us think about our attitudes.

For context I was born in 1953 in a Midlands city wellknown for having a high immigrant population, at that time that population was largely Italian and Polish. I was five before I saw a black person, he had a gold tooth, I'd never seen one of those before and made the logical assumption that all black people had a gold tooth. It took me years to lose that one.

I then grew up in an insular white community. There were three black kids at my secondary school and one Sikh boy. That was it, in seven years. My dad (born 1918 and posted to India at one stage) was a casual racist, my mum absolutely not and she used to pull him up on it.

If anyone had told me this time yesterday I was racist, I'd have been highly indignant. My son was delivered by a black midwife, I have black friends, how could I possibly be?

Your posts, Arbiters, have made me question myself. I still don't think I'm racist but I have realised how complacent I've been and that I must stop and think harder. I don't want to be that woman who hurts and offends another human being through inadvertent or unconscious actions.

Thank you. Your threads have benefited one person.

@Bluelady lovely post

@Bluelady I agree and think we need to leave this polarised idea that you are racist (bad bad) or not racist (good good) and accept that behaviours can be racist when we don’t reflect, and that what is unacceptable is when we don’t address those behaviours but instead hide behind the barrier of ‘but I am not racist’ with many indignant hurrumphs. It’s ok to get it wrong - we are all living in a rapidly changing society. But it’s not ok not to address it.

@BlueLady

Wonderful post. Beautifully sums up why that thread needed to stay.

I hadn't even thought about unconscious actions until this thread. Definitely changed my perceptions and way of thinking.

I read the original threat and didn’t comment op.
I agree with you.

I'm glad to hear thread is being reinstated.

I found it educational and hopefully some people will consider their actions more carefully in future. (obviously there are some others that are beyond rehabilitation)

On the subject of how wearisome it can be to deal with low level boundary infringement etc over and over again, this is an excellent clip of Jo Brand on Have I Got News For You. She's talking about sexism, not racism, but I think it has wider applicability.

Christ almighty this is ridiculous.

An old man grabbed my hand in the shop today to ask for my help - how dare he touch me, I’m female and mixed race! Racist, misogynistic bastard!

Same goes for the woman who pulled into the parking space before me - bloody racists everywhere.

x 100.

You can make every interaction in your life, be it positive or negative, into a race/gender issue if you choose to. What an exhausting and angry existence that would be though.

Well what was the point of closing the other thread?

When people are just CLEARLY going to carry on (with the debate/ranting) on this thread?

An old man grabbed my hand in the shop today to ask for my help

And you can't see the difference? Really?

When people are just CLEARLY going to carry on (with the debate/ranting) on this thread?

Who is ranting? Because all I see is black women being told their experiences aren’t true or that they’re snowflakes, and others responding either in defence of themselves or others.

If racists/apologists didn’t talk shit there wouldn’t be a problem.

Until they see it for what it is, it will never be resolved.

I'm sure it was meant as "I'm not a racist"/"it wasn't racism" ranting.

“I’m not racist....” is inevitably followed by something profoundly racist!

The debate needs to be carried on. We all need to have the courage to call out unacceptable behaviour.

Yanbu op

I'm Jewish and at the moment there are lot of non-Jews who like to tell us that we're lying about our own firsthand experiences of antisemitism.

I’m so sorry Arbiters I was busy last night and didn’t comment on your thread, but I saw the beginning and was shocked at how it was unfolding. I’m sorry too that you have to experience the racism that you do.

I’m white and have never experienced racism directed towards me, but I’ve seen it happen around me - I pulled a member of staff at a station up on at last week. I will continue to call it out when I see it, but also to accept that I can’t possibly see or know quite what goes on for a woman of colour.

And I agree, MN is not the place it used to be.

MN is not the place it used to be.

It's a reflection of society, isn't it? It's as if a lid has been lifted and people suddenly feel allowed to be racist or decide what is racism from a position of priviledge.

It's as if a lid has been lifted and people suddenly feel allowed to be racist or decide what is racism from a position of priviledge

I’ve been saying this for months, it feels like world politics (and UK politics) have given a platform to the kind of people who’s views would have been hidden before. It’s become socially acceptable to deride or demean people. Ugh ugh ugh.

I think this element has always been here on mn. It has for the 10 years I’ve been reading the forums.

I think this element has always been here on mn. It has for the 10 years I’ve been reading the forums

The baby name threads are always a fairly good barometer. It’s the leeching into the goady posts now and people are far more likely to outright say the most racist things which is becoming prevalent now.

It goes along with deriding "politically correct" as a bad thing and accusing people of being "special snowflakes" for speaking out and taking no shit.

I don't have anything to add to the thread but just wanted to post in support of you OP.

It goes along with deriding "politically correct" as a bad thing and accusing people of being "special snowflakes" for speaking out and taking no shit.

Completely agree.

Really glad that thread was reinstated.

It is a really good example of everyday ingrained racism. It is IMPORTANT that people see that this IS a race issue.

I have read the other thread and am frankly shocked at how overt some of the racism on there is, sorry OP had to experience that.