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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Thanks to many on Mumsnet, and MNHQ

223 replies

ArbitersCarbiters · 14/09/2018 22:36

For showing your true colours.

I’ve been a member of Mumsnet on and off for almost 10 years. It holds a special place in my heart - it got me through the long nights with my DC, bumps in my career, the breakdown of my marriage and helping me finally confront the grief at becoming an orphan far too young. I gradually stopped posting on here precisely because I began to see how hostile a place it could be (and was) for women of colour, especially those who called out micro-aggressions and thinly-veiled racist/dehumanising behaviour.

I wish MNHQ had let my (now deleted) thread stand as it was the perfect example of what so many black women have to face everyday (albeit hidden behind a sheer facade of disingenuous naivety and inclusivity).

Instead, it was deleted. The irony of that is that when people claim so many posters on here are and can be hostile to black women and our experiences, the evidence of that hostility is lost forever, and so those same posters and others can claim that it never existed in the first place.

Perhaps seeing the vitriol in writing might help people understand the reality (and denial) of our day-to-day experiences.

Or not.

And right now, I’m verging towards not.

As you were 🤷🏾‍♀️

OP posts:
powerwalk · 15/09/2018 08:47

Why don't we restart the debate minus the racism now?

DGRossetti · 15/09/2018 08:49

The internet remembers ...

<a class="break-all" href="https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:AwqkXl22DHIJ:www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3365535-To-the-two-ladies-at-Dingwall-Road-bus-stop-in-Croydon-at-16-15pm-today%3Ftrending%3D1+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:AwqkXl22DHIJ:www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3365535-To-the-two-ladies-at-Dingwall-Road-bus-stop-in-Croydon-at-16-15pm-today%3Ftrending%3D1+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

Makemineboozefree · 15/09/2018 08:50

I had a week's break from MN because I noticed how wound up I was becoming after being on it, because there's an underlying toxicity to the site that's very unhealthy. I saw your post last night OP and thought you made your point eloquently and calmly and I am staggered it's been removed it. You were absolutely right to call those women out for touching you without permission. I'm so sorry. It just proves what an elitist, toxic and self-serving site MN really is. I hope a newspaper like the Guardian picks up on this. I'm out for good.

RoboticSealpup · 15/09/2018 08:54

Why don't we restart the debate minus the racism now?

... Because it's about racism?

MasonJar · 15/09/2018 08:55

You were absolutely right to call those women out for touching you without permission.

It didn't happen to the OP.

Arthuritis · 15/09/2018 08:58

Being touched in a culture where the norms regarding touching are different and you’re far from home is utterly different to being touched by other people from your own city while you’re at home and trying to get on with your day. You are exotic and ‘other’ in the first scenario. You shouldn’t be in the second.

It absolutely wasn't right that the lady in the OP was touched - no excuses, it wasn't right. BUT nor is it right to say it's ok if you are far from home it is ok.

My niece who is blond and blue eyed was on holiday in Egypt. People kept trying to come up and touch her or take her photo. Her dad, who is a police officer, went mad.

That wasn't ok just because she was different or exotic.

How could you think it's ok?

Verbena87 · 15/09/2018 09:00

I didn’t say it was ok. I said it was different, and implied that it was easier to explain/defend. Of course people should be able to be comfortable everywhere.

zzzzz · 15/09/2018 09:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Havaina · 15/09/2018 09:01

But there’s more to racism than having “racist motives” and things like “no blacks” signs or racial violence, Twinning.

I agree. My white, male, successful, privately educated colleagues did the 'sassy black women's finger snap' to my black, female, state -educated colleague when she disagreed with him on something.

He was adamant that he didn't mean to be racist, but he did upset my friend. Why are his feelings more valid than hers?

user789653241 · 15/09/2018 09:01

Twinning, I think your argument is flawed.
The old lady needed to learn one way or other, that it really doesn't matter the intention was malicious or not. If you make someone feel uncomfortable, it's wrong.

Mookatron · 15/09/2018 09:02

Feel offended then Twinning.

Do people touch your hair when you're out and about?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 15/09/2018 09:05

I was on your thread Arbiters and I'm so sorry that it was deleted. Yes there were the usual casual and not-so-casual racists on there spouting nonsense (at least one is here on this one) - but many posters were in support of your OP.

I really like IDon'tLikeZombies's post as it explains how comparisons are not actually comparing like-with-like.

MNHQ - if you allowed the disablism thread to stand for 'education purposes' then OP's thread could - and should - stand for the same. It's woefully needed.

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 15/09/2018 09:05

Im sorry, i didnt see the thread

But i have just looked at DJs link and read your OP

Im not sure how anyone could say you were being unreasonable

No one should be touched like that and ive no doubts that it was for racial reasons

If people were being racist on the thread it should be up there for perpetuity not hidden so they can kid themselves that they were 'telling it how it is'

Twinning1 · 15/09/2018 09:07

People do not touch my hair (maybe I’m not pretty enough) but they touch my babies and my sister have been touched over in Asia because she is tall and it’s unusual over there.

Agree 100 percent touching in ANY situation is weird and needs to stop if a person doesn’t welcome it.

OnceUponATimeInAmerica · 15/09/2018 09:07

I think we can all be pretty confident that these women would not have touched a white person's hair without their permission. The fact that they felt it was ok to do it to a black person is very much race related. They did not consider that the black woman was of sufficient importance to have an opinion on whether she wanted to be touched, that they could just reach out without permission.

I am sorry the thread was deleted, I am sorry about the racist underbelly of MN. I have been seeing it more and more recently. I don't have the eloquence of many on this thread, but I hear you OP and totally agree.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 15/09/2018 09:07

Why are posters though saying that the OP's hair was touched? It wasn't, she spoke up for another black woman who was too shocked at having her hair touched. Did you read the thread or just wanted to say you did?

BakedBeans47 · 15/09/2018 09:09

I feel quite offended by people saying I don’t accept my “white privilege”

Well, maybe start at least at accepting it exists and considering it when reading threads like the OP’s and you might not feel “offended”

Of course there are other factors that affect outcomes in life but that doesn’t mean privilege doesn’t exist.

Mookatron · 15/09/2018 09:09

It's unusual to be tall in Asia. Is it unusual or different to have afro hair in Croydon (or anywhere in the UK)?

Twinning1 · 15/09/2018 09:11

Who knows...maybe it was unusual for the old lady. My point is we can’t assume!

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 15/09/2018 09:14

There is no way on gods green earth that people of that age in this country think thats its ok to touch someone uninvited

They wont have made it to that grand old age if theyve been touching random strangers

My opinion obviously...

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 15/09/2018 09:15

by random strangers i do mean adults

Sellmyhouse · 15/09/2018 09:17

Twinning, your persistent defence of the older women is bizarre when you are repeatedly being told by black women on this thread and the last that the experience of having their hair touched is frequent, unwelcome and has its roots in racism. As others have said, racism isn’t just the KKK and other overt examples. It’s also the every day experiences that people have, that you can’t possivly fully understand if that’s not the life you live. You say yourself that you don’t like the term ‘white privilege’ because you think it overlooks the range of experiences that affect people’s lives and upbringings, but you refuse to acknowledge that you can’t understand the experience of a black woman and so dismiss it as not being linked to race. It’s so arrogant!

OP, last night I had to just step away from MN. Between your thread and the one about the overweight girl whose school was hounding her about her weight, I was just done. Done with the racism, the hatred towards those who are different, and the rude, aggressive tone. The racism on this site is eye opening and has made me realise that knowing what people really think, under the cover of anonymity, is awful.

ErrolTheDragon · 15/09/2018 09:18

Agree 100 percent touching in ANY situation is weird and needs to stop if a person doesn’t welcome it.

Yes. However, if the reason for the touching is related to a protected characteristic (race, sex etc) then it becomes racist, sexist etc. The toucher may not have consciously meant it to be - but in such cases if challenged surely the only decent response is to apologise and learn, not get defensive.

Twinning1 · 15/09/2018 09:20

Here’s a question, would it be racist to say that your type in love is back? I hear people say things like that all the time. “I fancy redheads” or “I usually go for blonde, athletic types”...I know that some of my friends are attracted to black men for example, just as some of them fancy blondes etc

Appreciate that the old lady wasn’t flirting but she didn’t say anything mean and her intention was a positive one... is it not similar to the above example? Or are both racist?

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 15/09/2018 09:22

twinning

Why are you assuming her intention was positive

A minute ago we weren't supposed to be assuming anything

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