Thanks to many on Mumsnet, and MNHQ

[ArbitersCarbiters]

For showing your true colours.

I’ve been a member of Mumsnet on and off for almost 10 years. It holds a special place in my heart - it got me through the long nights with my DC, bumps in my career, the breakdown of my marriage and helping me finally confront the grief at becoming an orphan far too young. I gradually stopped posting on here precisely because I began to see how hostile a place it could be (and was) for women of colour, especially those who called out micro-aggressions and thinly-veiled racist/dehumanising behaviour.

I wish MNHQ had let my (now deleted) thread stand as it was the perfect example of what so many black women have to face everyday (albeit hidden behind a sheer facade of disingenuous naivety and inclusivity).

Instead, it was deleted. The irony of that is that when people claim so many posters on here are and can be hostile to black women and our experiences, the evidence of that hostility is lost forever, and so those same posters and others can claim that it never existed in the first place.

Perhaps seeing the vitriol in writing might help people understand the reality (and denial) of our day-to-day experiences.

Or not.

And right now, I’m verging towards not.

As you were 🤷🏾‍♀️

Not sure why I’ve capitalised white. Must be my inner Lynne Truss trying to get out.

Pretty well every thread about race here includes racist comments. But they are challenged. The ones which annoy me most are the ones which equate an experience of racism with an experience of a white person, showing no understanding (or claiming no understanding) of the difference in motive and impact.

WTF, they deleted the thread?? Why?! They let the other thread about disabled parking spaces stand although stopped letting people comment because, in MNHQ words, there were lots of valid points they felt people could still learn from the post. What, the innapropriate hair touching of a woman of colour isn't as valid as disabled people posting?

They let the other thread about disabled parking spaces stand although stopped letting people comment because, in MNHQ words, there were lots of valid points they felt people could still learn from the post

That's interesting- I didn't know they ever did that. I didn't read the OPs original thread, but it does sound as though they should have done the same with hers. Locked for further posts, put a final message saying why it had to be closed, maybe a link to talk guidelines...

Coincidentally elsewhere last night I was wondering if MNHQ should do that with more threads rather than deleting entirely, maybe also move them to a read-only topic to make their status clear.

No Errol, I've not seen it before. This is what they said-

LilyMumsnet (MNHQ) Thu 13-Sep-18 12:10:44
Hi all,

We've had a number of reports about the premise of the thread being disablist. Rather than zap the thread and lose the valuable input from people who have explained why disabled spaces are a lifeline, we're going to close it now.

So, the valuable input from people of colour explaining something doesn't have the same worth as a disabled/blue badge person explaining something? MNHQ - please do explain.

Sometimes over zealous mods delete and then those threads are reinstated after a bit of thoughtful consensus at mnhq. It may come back.

I didn't see your post, I am sorry I didn't see it and wasn't able to support you.

Was the thread deleted because the other posts were so offensive? And not because of your original post?
I can see why they would take the thread down if was loaded with racist posts. I hope the racists have been banned by MNHQ indefinitely. It would be good to hear a statement from MNHQ about this.

Although you would like to keep the thread and show what you are up against, as a true illustration. I understand that completely. Other readers might be deeper upset by it.

'Learn from' is utter bollocks. No, my role here is not to educate other users, and it gets really annoying to see the ageism and disablism that is left standing because it might be 'informative' or 'interesting'

I didn't read this thread, but was aware that it is World Afro Day.

I read the original post, I was going to come back to it this morning.

I can imagine how it went though, similar to the afro hair at primary school.

I saw the start of your thread, and thought your OP was well-written and thought-provoking. I'm sorry it got deleted as I think it was important and needed said, even just to make people think twice about how they act in future.

As this is a TAAT, this will more than likely be deleted too.

Why do some people act like this (touching people)?

I notice above mention of touching pregnant women for example.

I hated this when it happened to me. Seems that you become public property when pregnant.

Even something silly like lifting up a necklace to look at it and compliment you on it.

Are the same people touching pregnant women and black women's hair? So is it that they lack boundaries, for everyone, rather than they are being racist or sexist? Is a woman touching a pregnant woman sexist?

Yes twinning you made yourself perfectly clear yesterday. You made it clear that you were not interested in listening to the experiences of black women and you weren't interested in seeing why the actions of the old lady yesterday were rooted in a history that is far more sinister than a lack of personal boundaries.

The fact that you have come to this thread to spout the same thing rather than try to unpack what the OP says beyond just the hair touching incident is a pretty astounding display of arrogance.

Banana well said!

OP it was an excellent and important post/thread. I'm really sorry it was deleted and hope @MNHQ will reinstate it.

What do the old lady had some hidden agenda? I just don’t buy it... she saw pretty hair and wrongly (due to lack of boundary issues) she touched it. I bet she would have touched a pretty kid or a pregnancy bump too.

You're right. I'm sorry. It's shit.

This thread will go too, as it's a TAAT.
ButOP, you ANBU, no one should touch like that. Rude and unnecessary.

Arbiters, in my view (white middle class, middle aged), you 100% did the right thing calling them out. I come from same area as you and I cannot believe this was the first time they had seen a styled hairstyle and hence had to examine the wonder they had seen.
I hear stories every week of people acting or speaking in a racist way, some do try to minimise it (from another generation, they meant no harm etc), but most people would pull them up on it as you did as we are in 2018 not 1978 and it is not acceptable.

Arbiters, in my view (white middle class, middle aged), you 100% did the right thing calling them out. I come from same area as you and I cannot believe this was the first time they had seen a styled hairstyle and hence had to examine the wonder they had seen.

Me too.

I don’t understand racism insofar as someone’s colour makes no difference to me. Obviously i have never experienced racism or prejudice but if someone who has tells me X, Y or Z happens, I believe them. I might not understand why someone behaves like that or exactly all the emotions and history that explain why the victim of the racism feels that way (how could I other than in a purely factual basis?) but I believe it. A lot of the people on that thread were incapable of understanding or believing and it was appalling.

We are talking about an elderly lady here. Has she come on to explain why she did it? I don’t think any of us can assume anything about a person that is not here to “defend” themselves.