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AIBU?

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Original poster

To wonder why so many famous people are publicly supporting...

250 replies

ThanksHunkyJesus · 14/09/2018 21:21

Oritse of JLS fame who has been charged with the rape of a 20 year old fan, along with a friend of his who is accused of assaulting the same woman. Those who have publicly lent their support and well wishes to oritse include aston merrygold (also of jls), Alexandra Burke, Rochelle humes and olly murs amongst plenty of others. Falling over themselves to declare what a lovely guy oritse is.

Am I going mad or did #me too never happen? Why publicly throw your support behind someone who is accused of rape in the current climate? I wouldn't want to speculate whether he's guilty or not - but no consideration at all for the young woman did shock me.

OP posts:
fieryginger · 15/09/2018 12:20

Yanbu

Perfectly1mperfect · 15/09/2018 12:20

And if no-one was publicly supporting him, people would question why and suggest that means he's guilty. His friends are in a difficult position

That's exactly why it's better if people are not allowed to comment publicly. Nothing can be read into it either way. Just leave it to the police and courts who have all the evidence.

Just because I may know someone who has always shown themselves to me to be a good person doesn't mean that are not capable of a bad thing. Similarly, someone I know to be untrustworthy and horrible accused of a crime doesn't mean they did it. You can never know someone completely.

POAlockdown · 15/09/2018 12:30

I'd agree with no public comments being allowed. But it's nonsense to suggest lack of public support wouldn't be commented on and guilt inferred.

MorningsEleven · 15/09/2018 12:36

I guess they're supporting him because they're stupid enough to believe that rapists look evil and dodgy and kick puppies when they're not hiding in dark alleyways waiting for a victim.

GunpowderGelatine · 15/09/2018 12:43

I've just read the replies to Aston Merrygold's tweet. How depressing that people are so fucking stupid they believe they can make a judgement on a case they have no details of. I hope Oritse's victim isn't reading that. And I hope AM is happy with himself. Arsehole

Izzygrey · 15/09/2018 12:44

Personally I'd support a friend if I felt certain that they were innocent - if I knew them very well and had heard their version of events and had a strong belief that they hasn't done it. I'm not sure if that is right or wrong. Once a friend of mine accused a guy of sexual assault, he was charged but his friends defended him. Then later new evidence came to light that he was innocent (followed by a confession by her eventually). But by that point his life had been ruined, lost his job, moved to a new town as he felt so ashamed and scared of potential reactions. The support of friends makes no real difference to the case but might have made a world of difference to him. I honestly don't know what is right or wrong in this situation but personally I think people shouldnt be told that they can't voice their opinions or support their friends.

Onlyhappywhenitrains1 · 15/09/2018 12:44

Didn't Ester Ranson publicly support Saville in the early days.

She must feel pretty stupid now.

GunpowderGelatine · 15/09/2018 12:46

How could you possibly know a friend was definitely innocent? False allegations are so so rare.

SkaTastic · 15/09/2018 12:53

I have worked with survivors of rape and sexual assault and I know that getting a case anywhere near court is staggeringly difficult even with very clear evidence. So I certainly wouldn't be publicly supporting somebody who had been charged. Privately maybe so but publicly no.

YeTalkShiteHen · 15/09/2018 12:55

I also think there is a huge difference between supporting a friend through a tough time, and plastering SM with accusations (indirect or not) that a woman is lying.

One is to be expected, the other is just awful.

counterpoint · 15/09/2018 13:21

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YeTalkShiteHen · 15/09/2018 13:25

Sure, if they change their mind at the bedroom door and wave goodbye

Bullshit, anyone has the right to withdraw consent at any time.

By your reasoning, what my XH did wasn’t rape.

counterpoint · 15/09/2018 13:29

The people we are discussing in this thread are not married. Or, do you have a blanket rule for all cases regardless of circumstances, ages etc?

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 15/09/2018 13:36

Because they are his friends

Maybe he is , maybe he isn’t

And if he did he will be punished

As Feminist as I am , I think these cases get too much attention and detract from the wider issues .

We can debate for hours something that may or may not have happened between 3 people

There is bigger and worse stuff at play in the world that merits more discussion and focus

One rape case makes the news , but the women and teenage boys killed this week won’t get any attention . Fucks me off

YeTalkShiteHen · 15/09/2018 13:38

The people we are discussing in this thread are not married. Or, do you have a blanket rule for all cases regardless of circumstances, ages etc?

I’m not married now, it doesn’t mean DP could have sex with me whenever he wanted Confused

To say that consent after you are in a bedroom with someone is automatic, whether you’re in a relationship or not is a staggeringly stupid and ignorant statement to make.

counterpoint · 15/09/2018 13:42

Being in a long term relationship has different rules to such situations as we are discussing. The simple question is: why enter a strangers bedroom after hours, after drinks, after socializing, after smooching maybe? Why?

YeTalkShiteHen · 15/09/2018 13:45

counterpoint you sound dangerously close to victim blaming.

Why not? The onus should be on the man not to proceed unless unambiguous consent is given. NOT the woman not to “put herself in that situation”. That shite is only ever trotted out by apologists.

Strugglingtodomybest · 15/09/2018 14:00

Wow counterpoint, do you actually believe what you're writing or are you being deliberately goady?

Being in a long term relationship has different rules to such situations as we are discussing.

It doesn't. Rape is still rape even if you're in a long term relationship.

The simple question is: why enter a strangers bedroom after hours, after drinks, after socializing, after smooching maybe? Why?

I can't speak for the women involved, but I would assume they went to continue partying? I've done this many a time before, in my younger days, and have never been raped.

A poster up thread said that the 4 women left the room to go home but that one had forgotten her handbag and so went back for it and got raped. How was she supposed to know that it was safe to go with her friends but that as a lone woman she was obviously fair game? These men must have seemed like good guys at first otherwise she wouldn't have gone back alone.

counterpoint · 15/09/2018 14:12

I'm speaking generally and not allowing myself to immediately blame the male 100%.

And, of course there are mitigating and aggravating circumstances in most situations.

Rape within long-term-relationships, as I have intimated, is a different scenario altogether. There usually isn't a choice but to home-share with the partner (male or female) and hence vulnerabilities due to that set up should be taken into account.

I would alert my DD to keep away from certain sequences of events, which include strangers + hotel rooms + drinking etc.

YeTalkShiteHen · 15/09/2018 14:13

I'm speaking generally and not allowing myself to immediately blame the male 100%

Nobody is?

What you are doing is clouding the issue, and that is never helpful.

Consent matters.

BigLass9 · 15/09/2018 14:14

I'm going to assume the accusers of your friends and family were charged or convicted with perverting the course of justice?

No they didn't get charged as it is current police policy NOT to charge women for false accusations apart from extreme cases. One of the family members accusers has accused 7 boys. There was proof that some of these boys weren't even in the country or where they claimed it happened. Also texts showing she was lying. It seems many on here think nobody at all would make things up. Men can and women can. It may be a small minority but it does happen.
There is a move away from believing at all costs even when it doesn't make sense to more of a evidence based approach. Thats what is needed some of the policies make for shocking reading.

counterpoint · 15/09/2018 14:15

The onus should be on the man

Not in a fair, just, educated and civilized society. Or are females too stupid to take responsibility in all cases?

Original poster
ThanksHunkyJesus · 15/09/2018 14:15

personally I think people shouldnt be told that they can't voice their opinions or support their friends.

I certainly haven't said that. They can do what they like in private. But if you're a celebrity with a family friendly reputation, adored by millions of girls, why would you publicly throw your support behind someone charged with rape because you think he's a nice guy? Shouldn't these celebrities have some sort of social responsibility to think about the wider message they're sending out?

Rapists don't have tattoos on their heads. They're not all horrible men lurking in alleyways waiting to pounce. Sometimes they opportunitstic men who use positions of power or influence to get access to their victims. This isn't news, surely?

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YeTalkShiteHen · 15/09/2018 14:16

Not in a fair, just, educated and civilized society. Or are females too stupid to take responsibility in all cases?

Took a while but there it is. DFOD.

Original poster
ThanksHunkyJesus · 15/09/2018 14:17

I don't think counterpoint and their victim blaming are adding much here.

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