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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To wonder why so many famous people are publicly supporting...

250 replies

ThanksHunkyJesus · 14/09/2018 21:21

Oritse of JLS fame who has been charged with the rape of a 20 year old fan, along with a friend of his who is accused of assaulting the same woman. Those who have publicly lent their support and well wishes to oritse include aston merrygold (also of jls), Alexandra Burke, Rochelle humes and olly murs amongst plenty of others. Falling over themselves to declare what a lovely guy oritse is.

Am I going mad or did #me too never happen? Why publicly throw your support behind someone who is accused of rape in the current climate? I wouldn't want to speculate whether he's guilty or not - but no consideration at all for the young woman did shock me.

OP posts:
Original poster
ThanksHunkyJesus · 14/09/2018 21:50

The bit I don't understand is why celebrities who have a good reputation are so keen to throw their support publicly behind him. Not why they're keen to believe their friend, I do actually understand that bit but why they want to let the world know that they think he's a really nice guy? Why not just stay out of it?

OP posts:
Onlyhappywhenitrains1 · 14/09/2018 21:50

It's pathetic people defending him just because he was in a band they like. The fans and the public don't know him or what he's capable of, singing and dancing doesn't make you a saint. Plus nice guys rape too.

This allegedly happened in 2016. He has been charged and its going to court next month. So I think it's safe to assume there is some decent evidence against him.

IHaveBrilloHair · 14/09/2018 21:54

Do any of then share the same management?

womanintrousers · 14/09/2018 21:55

This is the only celebrity accusation that has shocked me. I have met him and he seemed a very kind man, he was certain well aware of child protection and safeguarding issues and from what I understand was a child carer himself. None of that means anything in terms of whether he is innocent or guilty but explains why some people are leaping to his defence.

HollySwift · 14/09/2018 22:03

Some of you would do well to remember that ‘charged’ does not equal ‘guilty’ in this country, regardless of the nature of the crime.
It’s just as reprehensible to condemn a man who is, as yet, not confirmed to be a rapist as it is to support one.

mrs2468 · 14/09/2018 22:03

Well said @HollySwift totally agree

Singlebutmarried · 14/09/2018 22:09

He’s been charged, but it’s taken 2 years to bring those charges.

I’m not sure. Sadly some people do cry rape. That could be the case here.

Petalflowers · 14/09/2018 22:09

I thought i’d Misread the article when I saw it happened in 2016. Seems a lomg time ago.

I guess the celebrities feel he is innocent. I'm surprised By the public show of support though.

I find these cases tricky, as i don’t like To blame an innocent man (think Craig Charles), but I want to believe rape victims also. Did the girls make it up and therefore the celeb is innocent? Or did he commit the crime? Only the people involved know.

butterflysugarbaby · 14/09/2018 22:12

I am on the fence. If the man has not been proven guilty, then why is his name being released? Very wrong.

Idontbelieveinthemoon · 14/09/2018 22:13

It’s just as reprehensible to condemn a man who is, as yet, not confirmed to be a rapist as it is to support one.

Some would do well to remember the current statistics on how many rape charges end in successful prosecutions and how poor current conviction rates are. And they'd also do well to remember how many rapes currently go unreported simply because victims are assured that a) they won't be believed and b) the current justice system is not designed to support them.

There absolutely is a difference between being charged and being found guilty. However, when a woman goes through the sheer horror of contacting police with a rape claim, she has to be believed if we are to do justice properly. I'm certain there are occasions when women lie, but there are far, far more when're women tell the truth and aren't believed. That's a hideous fact.

digestivate · 14/09/2018 22:16

They're all signed to Sony Music @IHaveBrilloHair

Thisisit777 · 14/09/2018 22:19

‘Lovely’ guys can rape. Mine was one of them. Sigh. All that glitters isn’t gold.

PlantsArePeopleToo · 14/09/2018 22:25

To blame an innocent man (think Craig Charles),

Eh, what makes you so sure Craig Charles was innocent?

BeeBum · 14/09/2018 22:25

To actually get charged there has to be decent evidence. My "lovely guy" rapist actually admitted to raping me via online messaging but that didn't count as enough evidence to charge him.

I'm not saying he's guilty as he hasn't had a trial yet but it's worth considering how bloody tough it is even getting taken seriously by the police, the interviews and examinations they make you go through as a victim are horrid too, and then finding enough evidence to be worthy to be taken to court is bloody tough. It's a long drawn out process which is why I imagine it's such an old offence coming out now.

PlantsArePeopleToo · 14/09/2018 22:27

As a general question would you support a male friend in a similar position or would you assume he was guilty simply because he'd been accused?

I wouldn't assume he was guilty however I wouldn't publicly support him either in case that backfired on me. I would however support him in private.

Neshoma · 14/09/2018 22:30

"Do you want to come back to my room" usually means sex, not for coffee and Brexit discussions.

LuluJakey1 · 14/09/2018 22:32

We have friends where the husband has been accused of a sexual assault. It is bizarre and knowing him I simply can not believe he did it, nor can DH. But it will go to court because he has refused to admit to it and it has to go to the Crown Court.
He is adamant he did not do it. I won't go into the circumstances and he has not discussed it with us but she has talked to me. It has been hanging over them for 18 months and he is off work with depression and has since been suspended. He will lose his job if he is found guilty. They are so genuinely nice, decent, kind people I just can not believe it of him. He is very aware of safeguarding, works with vulnerable people and has actually been responsible for leading safeguarding practice in his place of work.
DH and I have been very careful. We are finding it hard to believe. However, we also know victims usually don't make things up and there are some strange things about it that ring alarm bells with me in terms of him denying it. On the other hand, it is such a bizarre accusation that it makes no sense at all. We are trying to support them both by simply being kind and recognising how difficult it must be and not ostracising them and judging him prematurely (which is what some friends have done).
I think it would be foolish to be parading round defending him vocally to all and sundry but at the same time, he may be completely innocent and should not suffer being ostracised, ignored and excluded if it is a false accusation. The stress is taking a huge toll on both of them.
You would think the police must need evdence to proceed. They don't. This is literally his word against the girl's. There is no other evidence at all, nothing circumstantial, no one close by saw anything yet it was a very public spot, no CCTV, no physical evidence. They are strangers. Yet it is ending up in Crown Court. He has no previous involvement with any crime ever. It took a year almost to charge him based only on the girl's word.
It has already been in the local press and tv and will no doubt reach the national press and tv when it gets to Crown Court. It will probably destroy his career even if he is exonerated given the nature of the accusation.
So given how famous Ortiz is and the level of interest even at this stage in his charge, perhaps his friends (who probably know much more than is public) are already seeing him being ostracised and excluded and simply wanted to offer support. Very difficult situation. They need to be extremely careful how they do that in my view. He could be guilty but he could be a lovely man, who is completely innocent and who is being humiliated by the press and falsely accused. That stain on a character probably never really goes away.

Sparklingbrook · 14/09/2018 22:33

Eh, what makes you so sure Craig Charles was innocent?

Was he not aquitted?

MNHQ
HebeMumsnet · 14/09/2018 22:35

Evening, everyone. We understand that people will want to talk about this story, with it being in the news, but did just want to remind you all not to speculate on the thread about facts that have not yet been established. Thanks.

PlantsArePeopleToo · 14/09/2018 22:36

@Sparklingbrook

He was. However that doesn't mean he was falsely accused and last time I checked the woman who accused him wasn't charged with making it up. She is just as innocent of any wrong doing as he is.

AnoukSpirit · 14/09/2018 22:37

What does it say about our society that people have more compassion for suspected rapists than complainants. There's something profoundly wrong with you when you place greater value on protecting a man's reputation than your humanity.

Criminal trials don't establish facts or innocence, they determine whether the legal threshold has been met to punish somebody for something.

Nothing more.

Rapists, murderers, fraudsters and thieves all walk free from courts. Many more never even end up in a court. Doesn't mean somebody else wasn't raped, murdered, defrauded or stolen from. Just means the person who did it can't be punished.

butlerswharf · 14/09/2018 22:39

Err I would guess because they actually know him and rightly or wrongly don't think he did it.

Sparklingbrook · 14/09/2018 22:41

Right so they are both innocent in that case PlantsArePeopleToo.

PlantsArePeopleToo · 14/09/2018 22:42

@Sparklingbrook

Yes.

Sparklingbrook · 14/09/2018 22:43

Interesting way of looking at it.