To wonder why so many famous people are publicly supporting...

[ThanksHunkyJesus]

Oritse of JLS fame who has been charged with the rape of a 20 year old fan, along with a friend of his who is accused of assaulting the same woman. Those who have publicly lent their support and well wishes to oritse include aston merrygold (also of jls), Alexandra Burke, Rochelle humes and olly murs amongst plenty of others. Falling over themselves to declare what a lovely guy oritse is.

Am I going mad or did #me too never happen? Why publicly throw your support behind someone who is accused of rape in the current climate? I wouldn't want to speculate whether he's guilty or not - but no consideration at all for the young woman did shock me.

At what point do we say we give up rights to someone not inserting their penis into us?

Legally the penis can be inside you and if you ask its owner to remove it and he doesn't that is rape. Consent can be withdrawn at any point.

Like, to take a few examples from actual cases in the news, the point at which you discover he has decided not to use that condom he made a pantomime of putting on a few minutes ago. Or the point at which his mate walks in and asks him (not you!) if he can have a go next. Or the point at which he whips a knife out from under the pillow and explains that he likes to hold this against women's throats, don't worry, he won't press hard - oops...

Have we? Which cases?

I am not saying this woman is lying.

But without googling I remember a couple of cases within just the last few months and I don't make a point of reading about these stories. In one, a woman admitted she completely made it up, in the other the police messed up evidence which proved the woman harassed the man for sex.

Just because some awful women have lied does not mean this woman is lying of course.

These celebrities have the right to stand by their friend. I don't think any of them have actually said anything other than he's a friend, a good bloke, kind etc. They haven't said 'he didn't do it" or "I believe him".

I'm not going to comment any further as I don't think it's helpful. We either have a woman who has been raped which is just horrendous. Or a guy being accused of this crime falsely which is terrible too. When each say the other is lying I just hope there is strong evidence to either prove or disprove.

Nice guys don't rape. And they seldom get accused of rape. I don't think you realise just how damaging the public support of would be rapists is to women

And I'd be interested to see which cases you refer to as I only ever recall one case reported on where the woman was lying and that was a few years ago, so I may have missed some

GunpowderGelatine

I don't feel comfortable linking to cases but they are easy to google.

I don't think you realise just how damaging the public support of would be rapists is to women

But he is innocent until proven guilty, that's just how the law is. And until we make it illegal for people to comment on cases, people have a right to support the accused.
Maybe that needs changing to stop any influence on the trial.

The public and vehement support for Alec Salmond makes me profoundly uncomfortable too. As my username suggests, I am an SNP voter, however, I would much prefer the investigations to be completed fully before anyone made any public comment.

If he is guilty, the vocal public support could and would be extremely distressing to victims. Which cannot be underestimated. It’s always best to err of the side of caution.

If he isn’t, the public support could come afterwards to ensure his reputation isn’t sullied.

So what I guess I’m trying to say, is that it’s best to keep quiet, and let the investigations be completed and court proceedings to take place (if needed) before anyone comments publicly in support or otherwise.

And until we make it illegal for people to comment on cases, people have a right to support the accused

I think it should be made illegal, since across SM it is blindingly obvious that people can and do comment, and have the potential to derail cases.

Tommy Robinson anyone?

"Do you want to come back to my room" usually means sex, not for coffee and Brexit discussions

Actually four of them went back to the room. So more likley the girls were consenting to have drinks, maybe drugs and carry the party in in a posh hotel room.

As fans it would have been hard to turn down drinks in the celebs room, and as he's famous and idolised by the girls they would have also trusted him to be a 'nice guy', just as other fans are now doing.

Satistically, it's more likley she's telling the truth.

Why not?! If it's in the public domain and I'd find it by googling anyway?

But he is innocent until proven guilty, that's just how the law is

No, he's presumed innocent until proven guilty, and all that means in law is that he has a right to a fair trial under the no presumption of guilt. IRL it means jack shit, especially to the victim. Just ask yourself what a woman would possibly get out of 2 years of being dragged through a court system having her personal life scrutinised and running the risk of harassment when (not if) people find out who she is

gunpowder no point, just trying to understand.

I only heard of this yesterday and I thought it strange too. I understand he's a close friend of theirs, and I too would be inclined to believe a close friend. But if I was in the spotlight, I would extend my support privately. What if he turns out to be found guilty? As PP said he has been charged, not just accused.

I think it should be made illegal, since across SM it is blindingly obvious that people can and do comment, and have the potential to derail cases.

Yes, I think it should be too.

I think if I was in either position, I would prefer everyone to keep quiet, not talk publicly and put my trust in the police and courts.

His celeb friends coming out and saying he's a good guy doesn't make me think he's innocent no more than it makes me think he's guilty. I don't think you can ever know anyone 100%. We just have to hope that the evidence is there and the courts get it right.

I think if I was in either position, I would prefer everyone to keep quiet, not talk publicly and put my trust in the police and courts

This too.

There is far too much speculation on any case in the media at the moment on SM and forums, either for or against. Not one bit of it (if they’re being specific about guilt or innocence) is helpful.

Well I've googled and I can't find anything except stories about Male perpetrators, none about women being convicted for lying.

I don't agree with an Orwellian approach to silencing people about rape - we need to talk about it, publicly, to remind people its wrong and that going back to someone's hotel room doesn't count towards consent.

I think that consent needs to be publicly defined. Absolutely and unambiguously.

I’m uncomfortable with talk of convicting women purely on the back of a not guilty verdict for the man. That would lead, inevitably, to rape victims being labelled wrongly and cause further trauma. Becuwse let’s not forget, the rape conviction rates are woefully low in this country as it is.

In cases (I’m willing to bet a tiny minority) where it is abundabtly clear (and unequivocal proof is there) of a malicious allegation, then I’d be happy to see a conviction.

But I’d also like to see more effort put into preventing rape in the first place.

Into teaching boys and men what is and isn’t ok, what is and isn’t consent, and that women have the right to bodily autonomy.

Fucking fat finger typos all over that post. Sorry.

People on here say if you have been accused of a crime you should lose your support network your freinds your family. For years until ethier you are found not guilty or they drop the charges?.

To prove false allegations is so damned hard even when text or email evidence saying i only accused such and such due to not revising enough or leaving essay too late DID NOT result in her being cjarged with preventing the course of justice.

The CPS will only take causes of preverting the course of justice with overwhelming evidence that leaves NO doubt at all she could blab to all her friends about it, text or email that she lied about it wont prosecute. It would need to be everything possible as in all that AND a offical confession before they will even think about taking it to court as otherwise it could put genuine people off reporting. So its a fine line between false accusations and not guilty as on result is far far simplier to get then the other.

And btw if your found not guilty and the CPS decide not to take the woman to court for preverting the course justice you are NOT allowed to take them to a civil court.

People on here say if you have been accused of a crime you should lose your support network your freinds your family. For years until ethier you are found not guilty or they drop the charges?

Nobody is saying that?

But going on Twitter and publicly supporting is completely different to texting your pal and asking what support they need? Why post as a celebrity, to millions of people when you could pop round and stick the kettle on?

People on here say if you have been accused of a crime you should lose your support network your freinds your family. For years until ethier you are found not guilty or

I don't think anyone is saying that, just that maybe they shouldn't be allowed to comment publicly on social media. It could influence a trial especially in the cases of famous people.

Ched Evans is the prime example of how social media was used to manipulate and distress the woman involved.

She was named ffs, repeatedly.

People on here say if you have been accused of a crime you should lose your support network your freinds your family. For years until ethier you are found not guilty or they drop the charges?.

Who's said that

To prove false allegations is so damned hard even when text or email evidence saying i only accused such and such due to not revising enough or leaving essay too late DID NOT result in her being cjarged with preventing the course of justice

Which case was that?

The CPS will only take causes of preverting the course of justice with overwhelming evidence that leaves NO doubt at all she could blab to all her friends about it, text or email that she lied about it wont prosecute. It would need to be everything possible as in all that AND a offical confession before they will even think about taking it to court as otherwise it could put genuine people off reporting. So its a fine line between false accusations and not guilty as on result is far far simplier to get then the other

You most certainly dont need a confession to charge someone with perverting the course of justice. And it's a crime that should be held to the same standards for charging as other crimes, as in it needs to have a good chance of course bitcoin before a person is charged.

Do you have a false accusation beacon worridmum because you hop on every thread to basically talk shite and feed into ridiculous myths?

And if no-one was publicly supporting him, people would question why and suggest that means he's guilty. His friends are in a difficult position.

No POA they're really not. It's not hard to stay out of it. If he's found guilty (and I think he will be) it's very embarrassing for them.

A bloke in our last village who was a headteacher of a boys school in the 70's was accused of sexual abuse by one of his former pupils. The talk in the pub was how disgusting the accuser was, Tony was obviously innocent, loved his wife, the accuser is just sniffing around for money. It was awful, and at the time I was much younger so stayed out of it altogether (rather than sticking up for the accuser which is what I'd do now).

Well they all STFU when a 20th boy came out to tell his story of how he groomed and raped him.

They’re not in a difficult position at all. They can support him throughout the process, they just don’t need to be posting on SM about it.