To wonder why so many famous people are publicly supporting...

[ThanksHunkyJesus]

Oritse of JLS fame who has been charged with the rape of a 20 year old fan, along with a friend of his who is accused of assaulting the same woman. Those who have publicly lent their support and well wishes to oritse include aston merrygold (also of jls), Alexandra Burke, Rochelle humes and olly murs amongst plenty of others. Falling over themselves to declare what a lovely guy oritse is.

Am I going mad or did #me too never happen? Why publicly throw your support behind someone who is accused of rape in the current climate? I wouldn't want to speculate whether he's guilty or not - but no consideration at all for the young woman did shock me.

GunpowderGelatine

Innocent until proven guilty is all we have and that's for anyone accused of any crime, not just rape. He has the right not to be presumed guilty before a trial and I am glad I live in a country where that is the case.

No, I don't mean she should be punished if he's not found guilty. But sometimes cases unravel, evidence found that does prove lies have been told. If this is the case on her part, that's when I mean she should be punished.

I am not saying she is lying. I do not know anything about this case other than what I have read.

It's a terrible situation, someone is lying.

Reading some of the comments on here make me think I would like to track down the quite stupendously beautiful senior honours student I met one drunken night when I was a Fresher. I went back to his flat , undressed went to bed with him and changed my mind about having sex.

Guess what he did? Gave me a hug, said it was too late to go home on my own , went to sleep and brought me a cup of tea in the morning.

I would like to tell him what a thoroughly decent bloke he was. (And indeed as subsequent meetings showed , bloody wonderful in bed)

gunpowder so once someone has been to trial would you always assume there is a level of guilt? Even if they had been found not guilty?

I'm not aware of him, the support or the claims. However, to my mind, he's still innocent until the moment he's found guilty.

I wouldn't publicly support them but more due to selfish reasons, being a celebrity (hypothetically).

I don't however like the fact that allegations seem to be the new low bar for proof and used to destroy lives, careers etc - see US politics.

Im shocked at the support.

@Alibaba87 no - there's guilty or it guilty (in the eyes of the law). There is never 'proven innocent'

*not guilty, not it guilty

I was genuinely shocked when the news appeared in my FB feed. Dd said the same.

BUT a moment later I must admit I thought - as I have with every other similar case - it's bloody hard to even get a rape case as far as someone being charged and it's EXTREMELY rare for false accusations to be made.

There's actually been too many cases imo (and many others based on threads on here and discussions in real life) where 'celebrities' have BLATANTLY got away with what has been CLEARLY proven to be a rape! It's disgusting!

So yea, I think celebs think they're untouchable on this type of offence. That's SUCH a dangerous place for society to be.

It's fucking depressing. Not only that he's getting public support but that there was more than likely a point at which he didn't care about this woman, didn't see her as a person equal to him and due the respect ANY human being is.

"Do any of then share the same management?" I should think that's quite likely for those still working in the industry. Iirc they were all on X factor around the same time too.

LuluJakey - sorry but you cannot POSSIBLY know what evidence the police/cps do/don't have unless your in a different position in the case you're talking about than you're claiming.

With rape I'm afraid more than other types of crime 'not guilty' really can't be assumed to mean 'innocent'. It's a VERY difficult crime to prove partly because by its very nature it tends to take place in private areas.

And yes, 18 months isn't that long in light of the cuts not only to the police service directly but the peripheral services.

Anoukspirit - excellent post.

One good reason for in particular celebrities but certainly all those charged with rape to be named? Other victims coming forward with corroborating evidence.

Charming, 'nice' good looking men have committed crimes like this since time immemorial- because it's NOT about sex, it's about power!

"And to those who think that mud sticks, that those accused of rape have their lives and careers destroyed, I’d invite you to take a look at Michael le Vell, William Roache and Ched Evans" yep! Among others.

"so they feel they know it didn't happen." But they CANNOT KNOW because they WERE NOT THERE.

"It's a terrible situation, someone is lying." Not necessarily, as a pp said people don't like to think of themselves as monsters, plus there's appalling lack of understanding re consent in our society too. I thought I had my dd switched on, on that score only to find myself just last night explaining that consent can be withdrawn AT ANY TIME.

The big problem with celebs coming out in support for me is the fact that it preejudices the trial by swaying opinion before it has even begun. It further weights the outcome in the accuseds favour.

I've had family members and friends been falsely accused. I don't think it is 'extremely rare'. I know of people who have accused to stop access etc. Surely it should be innocent till proven guilty?

Could be for several reasons but probably because they're his friends and know him better than we do.

Also, what happened to innocent until proven guilty? We've seen cases in recent years where these stories have been made up and I think we need to leave it to the police to deal with.

Until he is proven guilty or innocent, his friends will stand by him.

Do you want to come back to my room" usually means sex, not for coffee and Brexit discussions

What type of sex do you consent to? What if he wants to hurt you? What if there are two men in the room?

There's a lot is sexism being branded here. Also, too much support for plain ignorance. Yes, it's plainly ignorant to join someone you don't know in their hotel room to continue socialising in private.

Why do they do it? Because rape is a bad thing to do, done by bad men. If someone uou know and like can do it, then that means that a. you were very wrong about someones character and b. if nice guys rape then then that makes the world a scary place.

There's a lot is sexism being branded here. Also, too much support for plain ignorance. Yes, it's plainly ignorant to join someone you don't know in their hotel room to continue socialising in private

What is "plainly ignorant" is what you have just said. The fact someone might have been anticipating having sex does not mean they are not entitled, legally and morally, to change their mind at any point.

If they do, but the other person persists in having sex using your ignorant excuse ("what did you expect was going to happen?") that person legally and morally is a rapist.

They name accused sex offenders in case someone else has been attacked by them. So they can build a better case.

gunpowder so once someone has been to trial would you always assume there is a level of guilt? Even if they had been found not guilty?

I'm not entirely sure what your point is but a bit guilty verdict to me wouldn't indicate innocence. And as a PP has said it's so rare for rape charges to even get court that I would assume there is a fantastic chance of guilt

We've seen cases in recent years where these stories have been made up and I think we need to leave it to the police to deal with.

Have we? Which cases?

I've had family members and friends been falsely accused. I don't think it is 'extremely rare'

Isn't it funny how every other person on MN has known someone falsely accused even though t is in fact very rare, despite what you think.

I'm going to assume the accusers of your friends and family were charged or convicted with perverting the course of justice?

Actual that is such a good point.

A lot of people are very naive (as well as ignorantly judgemental) when they confidently say of women ‘well she shouldn’t have gone back to the hotel/his place then should she? She must have been up for having sex with him’.

They are not engaging their brains.
A lot of people, especially older people, don’t understand how (..I’m putting this politely..) sex, dating and one night stands have been affected by misogynistic cultural pornification

He's a black man accused of rape. He will need support from his friends.

"Do you want to come back to my room" usually means sex, not for coffee and Brexit discussions."

Even if it does 'usually' mean sex, it doesn't guarantee sex, and any decent bloke understands that.

Its all a bit Schrodinger really. Innocent until proven guilty, coupled with "I believe you". He both did and didnt. She both was and wasnt.

My only thought on this is that charges for rape are usually only made if there is a belief that the case will hold up in court.

"Do you want to come back to my room" usually means sex, not for coffee and Brexit discussions."

Even if it does 'usually' mean sex, it doesn't guarantee sex, and any decent bloke understands that

Any decent bloke should understand that. It's depressing that there are posters on here who don't.

At what point do we say we give up rights to someone not inserting their penis into us?

At the point we (brazenly) suggest coffee at ours?

In the taxi?

As we open the door?

Kettle on?

Clothes off?

Etc.

FFS.