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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To the two ladies at Dingwall Road bus stop in Croydon at 16.15pm today ...

315 replies

ArbitersCarbiters · 14/09/2018 16:53

It is never acceptable for you (without permission) to reach out and touch a black woman’s hair.

How would you feel if a complete stranger came up to you on the street, complimented your hair cut and then immediately reached out their hands to run it through your hair?

You crossed an unacceptable boundary in doing so.

In case you were still wondering:
(A) One of you being 72 years of age is not an excuse.
(B) You thinking it is beautiful and that your actions were meant as a compliment is not an excuse.
(C) The owner of said hair smiling and laughing it off is not an excuse.*

*This is most important because as soon as she got on that bus i.e. away from your inappropriate wandering hands, she expressed that she was exhausted after a long day at work, froze when you did what you did and didn’t have the wherewithal or energy to tell you how unacceptable it was for fear of hurting your feelings and/or being labelled as aggressive/overreacting. I know this feeling well as I have very often experienced and felt the same thing (so has she in the past, in case you were wondering). This is why I spoke for her. This is why I told you it was not an acceptable thing to act so intimately with a person you had never met. This is why I told you that she had said nothing to you for fear that she would cause you offence. In doing so, I was speaking for the many of us who have to put up with this shit everyday.

I imagine you will go home and talk about the angry busybody black woman who had the temerity to question your right to touch another woman’s hair. Let it be known that I spoke to you politely, with a smile and no discernible anger in my voice. But trust me when I tell you that I was angry. Remember this the next time you feel like complimenting someone in such a demeaning, inappropriate way. We are not pets whose fur you can ruffle at will. We are not children. We are women, just like you, who hold the right to go about our daily business without fear of being touched intimately by a stranger.

AIBU?

OP posts:
tootiredtospeak · 14/09/2018 18:35

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YeTalkShiteHen · 14/09/2018 18:35

Do your own research, why do you expect everyone else to educate you?

Google it, there’s a Wikipedia page and everything that breaks it down into little words.

YeTalkShiteHen · 14/09/2018 18:36

The woman should have said no, if she didnt tough

Now where have I read that before? Hmm

Sleephead1 · 14/09/2018 18:36

I don't think it's right you spoke for the women how do you know she had a problem with it ? you said she said on the bus so presumably she said this after you had already said what you said. I wouldn't pressume to know how someone felt about it. Some people obviously have a problem with it and some don't. I dye my hair but naturally it's red and people did used to comment and touch it it's personally didn't bother me but I think I'm the minority on here as I didn't mind people touching my baby bump. I think it's best just not to touch anyone unless you know them really well and know it's ok as obviously some people find it very upsetting and all people have different things they are /aren't ok with

charlestonchaplin · 14/09/2018 18:36

Funny that Jamelia expressed these opinions on BBC Breakfast this morning! This seems another thread designed to bring out the racist attitudes that lurk just beneath the surface of genteel middle class Britain.

To those saying it isn't a race issue. How often do you think people dare to touch, uninvited, the hair of an adult white or Asian person? Not very often, if at all, that's how often, unlike the experience of black women.

Fiintastic · 14/09/2018 18:37

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DarklyDreamingDexter · 14/09/2018 18:37

Teabag try reading what I actually said. I said it affects any people whose hair is different, not 'all people'. When I had very long hair it was at least a weekly occurence for someone to randomly try to fiddle with my hair! I only mentioned one specific example. No one is trying to say racism doesn't exist, where are you getting this from? What a lot of people here are saying is they too have experienced unwanted hair touching from complete strangers. It isn't exclusively a race issue.

Noviceoftheweek · 14/09/2018 18:37

Totally unacceptable. Cannot believe that we black women have to face this in 2018.

WhatIsThisTomfoolery · 14/09/2018 18:38

pretty the fritters don't care about you or your dc..... they see it happening to white people as a non issue

They just want to froth!!

Twotailed · 14/09/2018 18:38

YANBU and I really admire you for taking the time to educate those women, even though you shouldn’t have had to

YeTalkShiteHen · 14/09/2018 18:38

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Fiintastic · 14/09/2018 18:40

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GeorgiePirate · 14/09/2018 18:41

Thank you OP. I am a researcher and have recently completed a study with BME participants many of whom described a similar experience. People absolutely need to recognise this is not acceptable.

tootiredtospeak · 14/09/2018 18:44

Are we now comparing the two old women to sex offenders to make a point. Its boring seriously. If someone created this thread and said they did this to her bump she was pregnant and didnt like it it would not get the same response. Fact. Your making it about race and yes that may cone from a very serious place in history but now it has no place in our world so stop bringing it back in for this nonsense.

IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 14/09/2018 18:46

I think everyone agrees that touching a random person's hair is weird and inappropriate. Overkill to call describe it as being 'touched intimately' though. I assume the hair was on her head?

While you are right about how inappropriate that behaviour is, you can't in all honesty complain about other people's lack of boundaries, while completely over stepping those boundaries yourself and speaking for a total stranger.
You had no idea whether she wanted you to do that before you acted.

Helmetbymidnight · 14/09/2018 18:46

Wow.

Mn used to have a reputation for having intelligent empathetic posters.

Where did it all go wrong?

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 14/09/2018 18:47

There are several posters with red, curly hair on the thread that have had the same thing happen (add me to that).

It’s hardly a race issue. An elderly lady complimented hair that was different. She shouldn’t have touched it certainly. But op said she’s 72 (how does she know this?), it’s a bit much to feel assaulted by a little old lady touching your hair.
I don’t particularly like it either, but it very definitely does not only happen to black women.

YeTalkShiteHen · 14/09/2018 18:47

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ADastardlyThing · 14/09/2018 18:47

I don't know if this incident was anything to do with race as I don't know their motive or views but i can say that this happens to me far too much too so I can empathise with those it also pisses off. I used to try and see past it to the compliment but after 30+ years it does get tiresome.

TerfedOff · 14/09/2018 18:48

Happens to my blonde kids all the time on holiday where they are a rarity. By old people. I smile at them. Doesn't bother me or the kids at all tbh.

SoupDragon · 14/09/2018 18:50

Your making it about race and yes that may cone from a very serious place in history but now it has no place in our world...

Dear god.

Fiintastic · 14/09/2018 18:52

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anyoldironing · 14/09/2018 18:52

Perhaps she was a potty old woman. Did she actually just touch your hair or was it a full on head massage? A quick touch of someone's hair was probably unfortunate but bearable.If so, I think it may have nothing whatever with the colour of anyone's skin, I have to say. Dingwall Road is pretty multi cultural!
A full on head stroke would probably ermm be a bit of a kinky/mad thing to do. Hope you are ok x

YeTalkShiteHen · 14/09/2018 18:53

Fiintastic and are you so offensive to them in RL? I bet you’re not.

Helmetbymidnight · 14/09/2018 18:53

A grown women in her own country = exactly the same as kids overseas. And it doesn’t bother you.

Can you even hear yourselves? Hmm

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