My son was assaulted at school and I don't like how the school handled it. But AIBU?

[ButAIBUtho]

My son is in year 7 so only a couple of weeks in.
Two things that could alter my reasonablility in what happened today
1- we're fresh out of Primary school, perhaps this is the norm for secondary school
2- I was horrifically bullied at school and beaten up regularly, I've no doubt this makes me extra jumpy with issues of bullying that may arise.

Today I get a phone call from pastoral at 1pm. They say my son has been punched in the face after he got into a 'fracas'. But they put ice on it and he's gone back to class.

That's it.

I ask is he ok? What happened? Who did it? How did the fight start? Is he ok to walk home? Will it happen again? How old was the kid?

They say they don't know. They just deal with first aid and to call his house.

I'm panicking because DS is a really gentle soul and quiet, least aggressive child I know and his kindness has always been pointed out by teachers at primary (again false sense of security?!).

So I'm calling the school for over an hour trying to get through to someone to find out wtf happened, and is my kid ok? I mean, aside from the ice on the cheek?!

Someone finally calls me back about 2.15pm, I ask what happened? They said they just spoke to my son and he got into a fight and the other child hit my son in the face, but they will get statements from everyone and find out what happened.
I asked if it would happen again? Is my son ok to walk home? Who is the other child?

They can't tell me who the kid is and they are going to investigate it.

I ask them if I can come and collect DS as I still don't know if he's ok (I wouldn't be if I'd just been punched!) and they said yes.

So I go down to the school, see DS waiting for me. I ask to speak to someone about what's happened.
In the mean time I talk to DS, I can see the bruises on his face (I've since taken photos) and ask him what happened.

DS was with a friend, child X called friend a pussy. My DS said "why are you calling him a pussy?"
Child X asks DS if he wants a fight? DS said no, Child X swings and DS. DS pushes him away, Child X falls down. He then gets up and punches DS 5 times in the face, a teacher pulls him off.

The friend DS is with has a black eye, earlier in the week Child X punched him and he's got massive bruising (DS says "worse than mine") and it looks terrible.

Half an hour passes and a woman saunters over. We go into a room, and she says "what do you want to know?"

I say I wanted to know what happened. DS has since told me, he also told me another child has been hurt. What happens next? Will the kid be punished? Will DS be ok to walk home safely in future?

She says "well first of all, your child got himself involved with this altercation. And I'll get statements from the adults who witnessed it to find out exactly what happened."

She's really rude and defensive with zero people skills. I'm feeling myself getting a panicky frustration and anger (I expect I was BU?!).

This conversation goes round in circles and I get absolutely no answers. I don't know how the child gets punished, I don't know how they stop it happening in future, I don't know if he's ok to walk home alone or if this kid is going to do it again.

All I know is they'll be getting statements.

I ask how the child will be punished? She said it depends what the statements say and what your son did.

She did admit that one of the teachers statements married up with what my son had said.

She was rude, abrupt and accusatory.
As I left I said she needed to work on her people skills. She said "I could say the same to you."

I walked out and just sat in the car and cried.
I'm a nurse if a child is hurt and a parent is irate, I do my best to calm them down and help them. That's my job.

Today my child was hurt, I wasn't reasurred in any way shape or form (on the contrary, the kid has form for assaulting children) and I've know idea if they contact me to discuss it further or what the fuck happens.

I'm just baffled. Is this normal for secondary?!
Is this how it is handled?

He was repeatedly punched ffs.

Clearly the school cannot sort it all out immediately - and sorting it out is very hard indeed.

But a child has been assaulted, so the police need to be involved. They would be called if it was an adult. This is no different.

You also need to ask (or look on the school website) about who is the safeguarding lead teacher at the school and who takes the same role for the governors. Contact both and speak to them about how you do not feel your child is safe in school and you want to know how they are going to improve things.

I wish we could Invest more into school cultural and behavioural training

I don’t blame the schools / they can only lead with what they have

But it’s a lot easier to affect one school than 120 families

But developing bullying , anger management and zero tolerance cultures could have so many societal benefits

-happier children

• happier staff
• well adjusted people with enhanced emotional intelligence
• less assault and eventually a lower prison rate when children leave School
• a culture where it’s widely seen as unacceptable and children understand better how to manage and express anger

We know it works . Companies that work on their culture have way better performance . But we don’t invest in this for schools

My children are at an amazing primary and there are NO incidents . But I think SS will be a different kettle of fish

I think, unfortunately, keeping both parties separated until the investigation is complete is the only sensible way to do it.

I appreciate that it feels completely unfair to the innocent party (your son OP), but I can’t see another way to do it.

The police would approach it the same way I think, without a full picture of what happened they couldn’t make a snap decision either.

stopfuckingshoutingatme
We very rarely have violence in our school. I think you're right on culture though. For all people may say it's awful of us to pull all students involved out of circulation following an incident whilst we invetsigate the message is clear. We do not tolerate violence. We have excluded for bullying, removed social time for those who bully and threaten others and have had students on managed moves for it.

I think with secondary you tend to get a more diverse intake. Small 1 form entry primary in leafy area is different from secondary for half the town with almost 2000 students.

(I know I will get flamed for this) Anecdotally, the schools I've worked in with the higher rates of violence have catchment areas with higher crime rates & more anti social behaviour.

@LokiBear children absolutely do have the capacity to demonstrate empathy. They learn it (if that’s the right word) from around age 2 and are able to understand / demonstrate unselfish behaviour / empathy and other complex emotions from age 8 typically.

Op how is your son today?! I was so sad reading your post. What an awful day he had. Ignore Cold, I think she/he is probably a troll and if not I’m on my hands and knees praying I never ever come across someone like them irl. I can totally see why you reacted the way you did, perhaps if the head of year had been more reassuring / kind you wouldn’t have felt the need to ask so many questions. Nasty piece of work!

Please keep us posted with what happens next and how your son and his friend are. X

i think its really important that you allow your child to stay home until the school can prove to you that they take this seriously and will keep your son safe. I also would consider changing schools

Of course they have tbe capacity to show empathy! I never said they didnt. It isnt always well developed though. I think it is the 'ID' complex or something. The fact that the op insists a teacher saw and heard the whole thing from start to finish (although I can not think of any readon as to why the teacher didnt intervene the moment the kids began arguing) means that things are not as cut and dried as the ops initail account. Hence the need for an investigation. Even if the OPs son was more verbally abusive and challenging than initially described, I would still expect the other child to recieve a serious sanction because punching in the face is disproportionate. The ops son might well be spoken to if he has beem found to have behaved in a provocative way. But, even if he was, the other child needs to learn that there is no excuse for losing ypur temper and punching him in the face.

I actually agreed with most of what you’ve said. When someone asked you why a child was different to an adult regarding an assault you mentioned empathy and I thought actually by age 11 I’m not sure if empathy would be relevant would it? I’m prepared to be wrong here.......🤷🏻‍♀️

Op secondary school is a zoo. The school will do absolutely nothing. Instead, your ds will need to develop skills to avoid this. Yes, it sounds like victim blaming, but there aren’t any other options. When X called your ds friend a pussy, ds and friend needed to walk away.

Maisy no flaming

Children that are bought up with violence as the norm will be violent
But they can be socialised to be a different way

Yes it won’t work 100%

I feel very passionately that using some of the soft skills , emotional intelligence and empathy work that successful business deploy could be hugely effective

I think the shift on pure acacdemic results and sporting prowess could be deployed better elsewhere

But what do I know !

ScattyCharly
Not victim blaming at all. Much better in most situations to leave an argument and walk away (especially if you know someone has form to starting fights). Definitely sensible in most situations not to walk into an argument between 2 other people.

Being safe is more important than claiming righteousness.
stopfuckingshoutingatme
I agree. It's the whole picture. If schools want to break the cycle of educational underachievment, get kids out of anti social behaviour, give them more options where smacking someone isn't the way to deal with things then it needs to be part of one big plan.
I've had kids tell me I cant put then in isolation because 'my mum says if anyone says anything to me I can smack'em and she doesnt care what you lot say'. A more holistic approach is needed along with very clear rules and clear sanctions.
But like you, what do I know?

If they persist with the "son got himself involved route" I would say - "yes my son stood up to a bully who was bullying another child. Isn't that what good pupils/citizen do? My son was then attacked by the said bully but apparently that is okay because he shouldn't be standing up to bullying. If that is the case may I please see a copy of your anti-bullying policy?"

Empathy in a younger teen is always secondary to their own emotions. They think of themselves and their pain first. We have to teach them to put others first. Some kids get it much earlier. Usually the ones who would never hit or who cry if they accidentally hurt someone. Others do not develop it at all, and will get upset because they feel they are being blamed for an accident.

Of course this is all really dependant on the individual but I like to think teens emotional intelligence is generally a little higher than your experiences but that’s ok. We can have our own opinion 😀.

Op can I just add that I know a lot of people and you have told your son to mind his own business and you’re probably right but I think being a good friend the way he was is really commendable, he might need his friend in the same way one day. My nephew got pushed by another boy for accidentally knocking into him, he even said he knew if was an accident but he didn’t care and pushed him to the floor. My nephew is small and would be a target for the school bully but his friend came running over from across the playground and pushed the other boy on my nephews behalf and gave the bully what for. We’re so grateful to that boy. My nephew is left alone now. He said he’ll always help my nephew if needed.

I haven't read all the posts, but when my son was bullied, and a teacher walked in on it, it was dealt with instantly. It transpired that it had been going on for some time (discovered by teaching staff, not me). The situation was brought before the head straight away.

The incident occurred at 12.30pm, and I was called in to school at 2.30, by which time the whole story had been elucidated, the bullies interviewed and sanctioned, their parents contacted.

I was told exactly what had transpired, and assured that if there was any repeat occurrence, with my child or any other, the perpetrators would be expelled.

This was in an excellent school with a Head who ran a tight ship.
The problem, it seems to me, is often that Heads are ineffective and schools do not function as they should, with the ethos and standards in the staff body not what one would expect, let alone poor discipline and behaviour among students.

Teddy I think you are right. What kind of world would it be if everyone only looked out for themselves? If my son was getting hassled by a bully then I’d like to think his friends would stick up for him as he would if it was the other way.

I'd like students to help and not look the other way, but that doesn't always equal get into an argument.
If I saw a woman in a bar getting grief, I'm not going to get into a confrontation with the other person, but I would ask if she's ok and wants to come with me. More often than not it more helpful to get someone out of a situation rather than escalate a situation.

Rumboogie that's exactly my experience. We have excellent HOY every year so far, efficient and organised. I've been always informed what happened, what the school is going to do about it, and I've been also told that the other student has been sanctioned.
I don't understand why OP is being told here that she's got no right to know all those things.

Hope your son is OK OP, year 7 is challenging from my experience

OP - it would be normal to remove both students from class. Firstly so each can be spoken to individually and statements/ accounts given. Secondly because they are probably shaken up by it and best allowed to calm down somewhere quiet where they have the attention of an adult. Thirdly because Year 7 will be 'buzzing' with gossip and it offers them protection from that and ensures they do not influence other people.
Even though a school may well have a good idea what actually happened, they have to go through the investigation. If they excluded a student without doing that the parent can have even a short term exclusion over-turned.

This thread really Upset me

My small For his age DC will start next year and this is exactly what I dread . Yes I went through hell years 7-9 and it has completely coloured my memories . I had so many great times but I just focus on the 3 years I was bullied

But I am More upset by how OP was treated by the school
Shitty shitty culture

Anyway dear OP I hope your son is OK , I hope you are OK and that you have some
Practical ideas how to address this

Ergh, DS went to his friends house for a few hours today, I took DS2 to the local supermarket which is 2 mins away and bumped into DS1 with a child I didn't recognise.
He was about 2 foot tall with a fat lip.
I asked him how he hurt his lip and he said he got into a fight.

What the fuck? I despair!

Apparently it was outside of school. I asked him if it was serious or a play fight, he said it started off jokey but "I've got anger issues."

Fucking hell.

This is life now?!

ButAIBUtho
Sadly, there is some kudos in some social groups for acting 'like a lad'.
We rarely have violent incidents at our school (zero tolerance) but I'm aware of boys arranging to scrap out of school. Apparently it's funny and a bit of a laugh. All participants willingly sign up to it and it's a form of entertainment. I think it's bloody stupid.

I hope you get some answers today OP.

Well the head of house called me. She was understanding and empathetic.

But that's it.

They investigate it and I will hear nothing after that.

My kid gets repeatedly punched and I get told and will get told absolutely nothing.
If he gets hit again, the same thing happens again. It gets investigated and I will not be informed of the outcome.

And so on and so forth.

Is that fucking ridiculous or is it just me?