My son was assaulted at school and I don't like how the school handled it. But AIBU?

[ButAIBUtho]

My son is in year 7 so only a couple of weeks in.
Two things that could alter my reasonablility in what happened today
1- we're fresh out of Primary school, perhaps this is the norm for secondary school
2- I was horrifically bullied at school and beaten up regularly, I've no doubt this makes me extra jumpy with issues of bullying that may arise.

Today I get a phone call from pastoral at 1pm. They say my son has been punched in the face after he got into a 'fracas'. But they put ice on it and he's gone back to class.

That's it.

I ask is he ok? What happened? Who did it? How did the fight start? Is he ok to walk home? Will it happen again? How old was the kid?

They say they don't know. They just deal with first aid and to call his house.

I'm panicking because DS is a really gentle soul and quiet, least aggressive child I know and his kindness has always been pointed out by teachers at primary (again false sense of security?!).

So I'm calling the school for over an hour trying to get through to someone to find out wtf happened, and is my kid ok? I mean, aside from the ice on the cheek?!

Someone finally calls me back about 2.15pm, I ask what happened? They said they just spoke to my son and he got into a fight and the other child hit my son in the face, but they will get statements from everyone and find out what happened.
I asked if it would happen again? Is my son ok to walk home? Who is the other child?

They can't tell me who the kid is and they are going to investigate it.

I ask them if I can come and collect DS as I still don't know if he's ok (I wouldn't be if I'd just been punched!) and they said yes.

So I go down to the school, see DS waiting for me. I ask to speak to someone about what's happened.
In the mean time I talk to DS, I can see the bruises on his face (I've since taken photos) and ask him what happened.

DS was with a friend, child X called friend a pussy. My DS said "why are you calling him a pussy?"
Child X asks DS if he wants a fight? DS said no, Child X swings and DS. DS pushes him away, Child X falls down. He then gets up and punches DS 5 times in the face, a teacher pulls him off.

The friend DS is with has a black eye, earlier in the week Child X punched him and he's got massive bruising (DS says "worse than mine") and it looks terrible.

Half an hour passes and a woman saunters over. We go into a room, and she says "what do you want to know?"

I say I wanted to know what happened. DS has since told me, he also told me another child has been hurt. What happens next? Will the kid be punished? Will DS be ok to walk home safely in future?

She says "well first of all, your child got himself involved with this altercation. And I'll get statements from the adults who witnessed it to find out exactly what happened."

She's really rude and defensive with zero people skills. I'm feeling myself getting a panicky frustration and anger (I expect I was BU?!).

This conversation goes round in circles and I get absolutely no answers. I don't know how the child gets punished, I don't know how they stop it happening in future, I don't know if he's ok to walk home alone or if this kid is going to do it again.

All I know is they'll be getting statements.

I ask how the child will be punished? She said it depends what the statements say and what your son did.

She did admit that one of the teachers statements married up with what my son had said.

She was rude, abrupt and accusatory.
As I left I said she needed to work on her people skills. She said "I could say the same to you."

I walked out and just sat in the car and cried.
I'm a nurse if a child is hurt and a parent is irate, I do my best to calm them down and help them. That's my job.

Today my child was hurt, I wasn't reasurred in any way shape or form (on the contrary, the kid has form for assaulting children) and I've know idea if they contact me to discuss it further or what the fuck happens.

I'm just baffled. Is this normal for secondary?!
Is this how it is handled?

He was repeatedly punched ffs.

YANBU op - I do wonder about AIBU sometimes. People want to be the first to put the boot in.

School have not dealt with this well, and assistant head was out of line to speak to you like that. I'm public sector and often get lots of (understandably) angry people giving out to me - I certainly don't tell them they have no people skills. I'm the professional being paid to do a job.

My experience is schools like to sweep issues under the carpet and I would suggest you consider reporting it to the police. They were helpful when DS was in a similar situation (although primary school) and reminded the dozy head that assault by someone over 10 was a crime irrespective of where it took place.

I’ll almost guarantee it ends up 6 and 2 3s. The other boy will say he only said something to someone else and next he knew your Ds has shoved him to the floor.

If only a teacher had corroborated the DS’s version... oh, wait...

YANBU. I'm pretty horrified by how institutionalised some posters are, trust the school - uh huh, the school has already let at least 2 boys in their care be assaulted. Trust is earned, I'd expect them to show me what they are doing to keep my child safe. Firstly, in writing, request a copy of their bullying policy.

I do sometimes wonder why we expect kids to put up with things we'd never tolerate ourselves. If I had a disagreement with a colleague and ended up punched multiple times in the face no way would I expect to work the rest of the day in the same building as my colleague waiting calmly and patiently for statements to be taken under the assumption I was probably a bit to blame.

Thank goodness more sense is being spoken now! AIBU really does bring the dickheads out in force first....

I've got to say the victim blaming by some on this thread is ridiculous. If one of the 12 year olds at dc sports club called someone a name, another 12 year old called them out on it and was punched five times in the face all hell would break lose.
Why do we expect it because its in school.
Bonkers.

To all the people who are saying they wouldn't tolerate being punched in an adult workplace - you're right. Absolutely you shouldn't. But the key word is ADULT.

A school isn't made up of adults - secondary schools in particular are a hotbed of hormonal and excitable children, who are there to learn. And one of the things they are there to learn is how society operates. If they didn't need support and guidance with that then we wouldn't have teams of pastoral staff to help them would we?

OP - I have sympathy. My son came home from school this week having been clawed/scratched deeply from bicep to wrist and bitten by a year 8. I felt quite sorry for him and let him explain what happened. There was some prelude where my son was pushed over and he asked "what did you do that for?" which apparently resulted in the injuries.
I don't expect the school to do anything. The child in our case has different needs to my sons and I decided to discuss this with my child. It's becoming harder now as this is not the first time this child has behaved to mine in this way.
The teachers are apparently aware of what's happening. I'm watching and waiting and trying to trust to the school's discipline. I'm aware they've been strict with others (friend's son) in the past when appropriate - I think this experience does help. It's hard not to jump in there but let the school do what they need to. I'd hope they would ask how your son is in a couple of days time and possibly "update" you (probably very vaguely) then.

Margot if this happened at my kids out of school activity it wouldn't be tolerated there either though.

You need to calm down and of course the school won't give you details of the other kid but your son will.

Schools unfortunately will often play down what happened especially if it involves a known troublemaker. My son was very confused when he saw equal punishments being doled out to both the perpetrator and the victim.

Give them a chance to deal with it their own way but if it happens again perhaps involve the police if they are unable or unwilling to protect the other children from the troublemaker.

You are understandably upset. She may be did not deal well with you. From your description she sounds abrupt but you may also have been confrontational. The school do need a bit of time to investigate but they should be able to make a judgement in a day or so. Wait two daus and ring for an appoint ment with the head of year to discuss.

A school isn't made up of adults - secondary schools in particular are a hotbed of hormonal and excitable children, who are there to learn. And one of the things they are there to learn is how society operates

By year 7 they should know that punching someone 5 times in the face is unacceptable - that is why the age of criminal responsibility is 10.

"I do sometimes wonder why we expect kids to put up with things we'd never tolerate ourselves. If I had a disagreement with a colleague and ended up punched multiple times in the face no way would I expect to work the rest of the day in the same building as my colleague waiting calmly and patiently for statements to be taken under the assumption I was probably a bit to blame."

THIS ^

The age of criminal responsibility is 10

Yes - but a child of 10/11 would be treated very differently to an adult in a court!

I find threads like this so frustrating. From what I have read (and I've read virtually every post) NO ONE is suggesting that being punched (either once or more) is okay. Other threads are so quick to remind posters how their DC are still young/vulnerable/need support in Y7 - and I would agree. But the school has to get it right for all of the children involved in as best they can. Because they haven't automatically jumped to exclude the presumed aggressor then in the eyes of many of you they aren't doing enough because in an adult setting this wouldn't happen. To the PP who said that after school activities wouldn't tolerate that behaviour - no they probably wouldn't but then it isn't their job to deal with it - the school doesn't have a choice.

Ultimately the school need the opportunity to
Investigate properly for the benefit of all the children involved. There are a few inconsistencies in the OPs version of things for me - but as it is being taken as gospel here that the OPs son's version is the correct one that view is clearly not going to be popular. The main thing for me is that if a teacher was genuinely close enough to corroborate the DCs story completely then they were also close enough to intervene before anything like 5 punches were thrown.

Teachers and schools are in a uniquely awkward position. Because everyone has been to school virtually everyone thinks they are an expert and can judge...

YADNBU and Isay that as an ex-Dep Head in a secondary school.
It is normal for a school to take statements and look at any cctv to help inform their decision on what action they should take after a serious incident. However, I would expect them to do that immediately, not after a weekend.
We would have asked staff to write a detailed statement before the end of the day. We would have sat with the main children involved individually and asked them to write statements of exactly what they saw and heard and did.
The school has dealt with you really poorly. It is good practice for a Head of year/house who is dealing with it to ring each parent, explain what has happened, tell them how their child is, explain exactly how it is being dealt with and when they can expect an update. The school should not be rude - neither should the parent. The Assistant Head - who does not yet know what happened- should not make saracastic remarks about children to their parents. Adults are not the only people whose account matters, children are usually truthful in these instances- even about their friends.
But, this is the time in all secondary schools - about 3 weeks into September- where Year 7 fight. They are forming new friendships, jostling for position and having to establish their place again with new people. I bet every secondary school in the country will be going through this and it is usually boys but sometimes girls and usually the instigator or both children have had reputations for being top dog in their primary school and suddenly are no longer that a secondary. I bet not a child in this boy's primary would have dated question why he was calling someone a name. He must have got the shock of his life when your son did. Good on your son for speaking up.

See what happens on Monday. Get your son to write his account over the weekend and send it in to her with a note that says he did it, by himself and you hope that it will help her investigation. Give her your mobile and say you are very concerned and please can she ring you by the end of the day on Monday to tell you what the outcome is.

I haven't read all the messages from last night yet but just wanted to quickly reply to LuluJakey, thanks for that message that's really helpful. I'm going to follow your advice and also use it to message the head and explain what I expected to happen in those circumstances and what the AH said was unacceptable in a professional circumstance. I will then contact his HOY and ask what happens next in the investigation - so to speak.

I don’t think you’re being unreasonable and I don’t think it sounds like your son started it. If someone swings at you and misses because he was pushed away, the pusher hasn’t started the fight.
The sneers posters saying otherwise need to give their heads a wobble.

I also don’t think you were rude to the teacher - she sounds like she does need to improve her people skills, honestly.

I don't think you were unreasonable at all. On the one hand she hadn't finished her investigation and on the other she has concluded that your son got himself involved. They want to sweep this under the carpet and you are preventing that. Your son has been assaulted and sent back to class presumably with the perpetrator. It's school's inability to deal with these problem often violent children adequately that put the rest of us at risk. These children go on to offend after school too so literally helping no one.

Dorkdiary
I don't think it's a case of expect it because it's a school.
I think (for most people on the thread anyway) it's a case of school have to investigate matters before making a decision on what to do next.

Personally, I think both boys should have been isolated pending investigation, not as a punishment but as a way to ensure that the situation didn't escalate, there was no trying to play to the crowd, get people taking sides etc.

If the teacher has observed the full thing, including the conversation before then that certainly demonstrates that the child is spoiling for a fight and picking on peers. It might be the teacher has only seen the end and that more witnesses are needed to establish the events in the run up to the assault.

No child deserves to be beaten up in school. I would advise students that the response when someone is spoiling for a fight is to walk away and encourage others to do so. Wading into an argument raises the tension, raises the perceived threat to the instigator's face and makes a fight or assault more likely to happen. That is not victim blaming, it is advice to keep safe. (Just like i wouldn't ever deserve being mugged, but I'm probably best off sticking to lit streets and not using a dark quiet cut at midnight wearing headphones and waving my iPhone 8 around).

I don’t think you are being unreasonable in the slightest and hope DS is ok and whole affair gets sorted soon.

Hey OP. I haven’t read the entire thread, I will shortly, but I’ll make comment now.

IMHO you were being a concerned parent. I probably would have gone to the school too to try to get some initial understanding and check up on my boy. They should be then have had a broad understanding of the facts if not any detail or statements. If nothing else, the duty teacher would have reported what went down.

I feel your boy responded appropriately to being threatened. To push the threat away is a normal response. If what transpired is the way youve said, the boy who threw five punches has certainly acted disproportionately. What ends up happening to him is none of your concern though and this is where I think you pushed the teacher a little too hard.

I’d ask for a copy of the policy surrounding these sorts of events from the school. I’d ask what the school will do to prevent this from occurring again. I’d likely (but I’m an ornery bloke) complain about the teachers response to you. She was unprofessional.

I don’t get how the responses at the beginning of the thread seemed to make you out as unreasonable. Very strange. Maybe they have bullying kids?

I paid for my kids education. That gave me leeway. I took one of my kids out of school due to a disagreement. I voted with my feet.

MaisyPops if someone assaulted me at work and punched me 5 times, should we both get suspended/put in a cell/whatever the adult equivalent is until the police investigated?

Jesus wept I really would have flipped out if they had put my son in isolation for being punched 5 times in the face by a child who had done the very same thing to another child just days before.

If it's not to have a repeat then you put the violent person in isolation. Not the victim.

ButAIBUtho The police will frequently arrest all parties involved in a fight put them in a cell and conduct interviews/gather statements until they have a reasonable idea of what has happened. However, given a teacher witnessed it and can corroborate your DS's version, this isn't the same situation and I think you need to concentrate on the fact they already know what happened as much as they are ever going to, they are really spending time deciding how to frame it rather than on providing the appropriate support and guidance to the children involved.

ButAIBUtho
Keeping both parties isolated and out of circulation is usually done to prevent any escalation. Sometimes that's working with head of Year, sometimes that's sitting in isolation, sometimes it's a teacher they get on well with agrees to have them for the lesson when they're free.

If it was a cut and dry totally unprovoked attack as in 'child a minding their own business & child b walks up and smacks them' then only child b would be out of circulation. If it's there was some confrontation or argument, physical contact on both sides (even if one was substantially worse than the other) then keeping both children out of circulation means the investigation can be done quicker and without all parties going on a gathering support campaign.

The comparisons to the workplace and being placed in a cell are hyperbole. If a physical altercation happened in the workplace then I would expect both parties to be kept apart. As adults they'd probably work that out.

Students on the other hand behave differently to adults so the first hint of a fight or altercation you get kids taking sides, the rumour mill goes wild, friends of the people involved start 'agreeing their version' and then you also have those in the year who want to stir up a repeat performance so will go up to the two people involved saying things like 'Harry said he's going to smack you after school's then go to Harry and say 'Tom's pissed off at you and says you should finish what you started'. More often than not you end up with 2 students even more angry and wound up, it makes a repeat performance more likely and makes the incident bigger.

Children act differently to adults. My guess is in a workplace you wouldn't have 100 people out of a department of 250 actively stirring and spreading rumours to create another fight.

And you have to stop going on about what may or may not have happened earlier in the week. It is irrelevant.