To be heartened by the majority of comments on this article about leaving the EU?

[LetsGoAyo]

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/no-deal-brexit-plans-revealed-13238820

So sick of people trying to talk this country down. Happy to see most people think this is pathetic scaremongering from bitter people that can’t get over that the vote didn’t go their way!

I sometimes think that Brexit is a bit like Christmas Lunch. We always had it with aunt EU, but we hated the dry turkey, she treated us like idiots, and made us bring most of the food while dishing us up shitty portions. So, we decide to make our own dinner this year, and spend it at home.
Que remainers aunt EU telling us don't be silly, our oven might explode, we won't find a turkey as nice as hers, she won't give us a present this year (despite never having done so before) and all her bingo friends will laugh at us.

Hi Bellinsurge :)

That's my point - we don't truly know either 'devil'.

I concede that a remain vote offered short term stability. But Brexit offered a chance to get off the ride before doing so becomes nigh on impossible

We always had it with aunt EU, but we hated the dry turkey, she treated us like idiots, and made us bring most of the food while dishing us up shitty portions.

The UK has always been the awkward member of the EU. Lets see how deprived areas of the UK cope when that EU funding dries up. Think the austerity mad Tories will plug the gap when the country is poorer?

Or an annoying auntie who gives you Christmas lunch but it's bloody obvious you can't cook lunch by yourself or even buy the ingredients and you were better off going to hers, chilling out and maybe think about having a cheaper party at home in January when everyone is skint.

The UK has profited hugely from being in the EU.

It is really beneficial to our services industry which forms a large part of the entire economy and tax take.

It prioritises employment rights, consumer rights, environmental protection and anti tax avoidance measures.

There are bad points sure but to me the balance is on the side of the benefits.

British Steel are cutting jobs partly blaming the weak pound. Is this still project fear?

@10degreestostarboard - we weren't in the Euro, we weren't in Schengen. We got to throw our weight about and be the voice of reason. We got loads of rebate considering we put stuff in. We had full access to a massive market and the right to restrict Eu residence here (which we didn't take). All things considered, a sweet deal. Not perfect because no deal is perfect.
Now we have nothing. For quite a long while.

You are wilfully missing the point - a remain vote was as much as a shot in the dark as a leave vote.
No, we knew exactly what we were voting to remain in. We were not given any details about what Leave would mean.

Dione,

No you weren't because you can't possibly know what the future EU will look like. You are not merely remaining now, we would be locked into EU membership for good or ill into the future because, as this episode shows, leaving is bloody hard work. The EU of now will inevitably change. Then Leaving in the future will be even more bloody hard work.

You may think that Brexit is a bit like Christmas lunch at your aunt's house RageAgainstTheTagine, but it really isn't.

You are not merely remaining now, we would be locked into EU membership for good or ill into the future because, as this episode shows, leaving is bloody hard work.

Eurosceptics have be whinging for 25 years. Where is their plan? Leaving is possible but it can't be done overnight. Or in 2 years. And some benefits of leaving would be nice to hear. Being tied to the EU is merely the imagination of leavers minds.

You mean as pure conjecture as knowing what a remain vote would mean in 20 years time? What will the EU look like then? Do you know?

So you can't defend your original point so you distract with 'whataboutism'. Nice debating technique. Socrates would be proud.

You missed the point anyway. I was simply saying there was no universally agreed understanding of what brexit meant before the referendum. Hell, there still isn't.

However the remain position was clear (stay on current terms). You don't enter into any deal, ever, knowing what will happen in 20 years. Things change, you react.

That doesn't make a remain vote better than a leave vote, but I'm surprised that those who were planning to vote leave didn't ask more questions on the terms of leaving prior to the vote. An orderly exit on the Norway model is very different to a crashout with no deal.

Or an annoying auntie who gives you Christmas lunch but it's bloody obvious you can't cook lunch by yourself or even buy the ingredients

Yes, this one makes sense

@RageAgainstTheTagine

I sometimes think that Brexit is a bit like Christmas Lunch. We always had it with aunt EU, but we hated the dry turkey, she treated us like idiots, and made us bring most of the food while dishing us up shitty portions. So, we decide to make our own dinner this year, and spend it at home.
Que remainers aunt EU telling us don't be silly, our oven might explode, we won't find a turkey as nice as hers, she won't give us a present this year (despite never having done so before) and all her bingo friends will laugh at us.

Love it

Laurie,

To construct a balanced argument, you cannot critique the unknowns of Brexit without doing the same for the unknowns of remain.

It is not whataboutery, it is about comparing like with like

While no one can predict the future 10degreestostarboard, I know what it is like to live within the laws and structures of the EU. I know how my border operates so I know how long it takes to import and export my goods in a JIT model. I know how it works wrt the GFA. I am aware of existing laws and upcoming legislation.

Leave was just leave with no other details. In the absence of details my former bosses and many other industries will relocate. Business doesn't like uncertainty, it costs too much money. So it is easier to relocate, with the loss of real jobs and tax revenue to the UK.

Remain - member of the biggest and most prosperous trading block in the world. Funding to regions within the UK. Free to live and work in 27 other countries. Member of various EU initiatives/collaborations.

Leave - drop in GDP, devaluation of sterling, job losses, potential food and medicine shortages in the short term. Benefits in 50 years.

Now, of the 2 above which do you think would benefit my family more?

But isn’t that 100s point? You know what it is like to live with the EU now, 20 years down the line you won’t. Is the EU now the same EU as it was when it started? No.

Leave - drop in GDP, devaluation of sterling, job losses, potential food and medicine shortages in the short term. Benefits in 50 years.

You know this how?

I do think this mess could have been avoided if the UK electorate had been given better information and had been more involved in significant change e.g. treaty change.

I don't want competence creep from the EU. But I don't want to leave either.

What frustrates me is so much rhetoric and so little actual information, often on both sides. People can't see past their emotions on this especially on the leave side.

Well if you want to be a small island somewhere off the coast of Europe thats up to you...

I don't see it as "talking the country down". I don't see it as negative.
I see it as realist. Talking about the issues. How can that possibly be negative?

It is not whataboutery, it is about comparing like with like

No it isn't.

When you voted brexit on the ballot paper you could have been voting for anyone of about 15 different versions of brexit, potentially radically different. For example Norway, Norway-, Canada, Canada+, Turkey, No deal, BINO, etc, etc.

When you voted remain, you were clear you were voting for one thing (stay on current terms).

What happens in 20 years time is neither here nor there for either position. Leaving the EU could look totally different in 20 years time too. None of us have a crystal ball.

The point is that the terms of leaving were not clear at the time of the vote, but the terms of remaining actually were. This is not surprising as remain was by far the simpler option.

Well if you want to be a small island somewhere off the coast of Europe thats up to you...

Erm, like since the dawn of time? What does this comment even mean 😂