AIBU in thinking British Gymnastics new guidelines are disadvantaging girls and putting them in danger?

[GColdtimer]

I have just seen the BG new guidelines on inclusion (here.

They go against all of their own safeguarding policies by saying that children should use the changing room of the gender in which they identify (so boys who identify as girls can use the girls changing room. Their own safeguarding guidelines state changing rooms should be single sex.

They then say if the girls don't like it they can go elsewhere. If an individual remains unhappy about a trans person using facilities appropriate to their gender identity, then they should make alternative arrangements

They also say the same for residential trips. And because privacy is of greatest important (although not for girls it would seem), a teenage girl (or her parents) may not be told she is sharing a room with a teenage boy (who identifies as a girl.)

This goes against all of their published safeguarding guidelines which says there should be single sex changing rooms, washing facilities and sleeping arrangements (for trips).

They also say children under 16 can compete in the gender they identify with. So boys can compete against the girls if they wish.

(Girls can also complete against boys but its highly unlikely they will).

Their guidelines on gender also, say Signs can appear at a very young age e.g. a child refusing to wear typical clothes of their gender or taking part in non- typical games. I'd better tell my short haired, trouser wearing, rugby playing niece that the leading governing body for one of the most popular sports for children believe she is actually a boy.

AIBU in thinking this is sexist and dangerous and BG should be held to account?

Signs can appear at a very young age e.g. a child refusing to wear typical clothes of their gender or taking part in non- typical games.

This is just so damn depressing. And stupid.Its as if we are in some kind of tunnel taking us back to god knows when,when men were real men and women were real women....because everyone knows that only boys want to play football and only girls want to play with dolls,right?
So not being typical,that's a sign of something other than the fact that people come in all kinds?
For logical thinking it reminds me of the spokesperson statement heard years ago that the aim of changes in education was for "all children to be above average"

@TeaForDad

That letter is great, but there is a mistake. Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic from the off. It applies to anyone who is in the process of, or even thinking about transitioning. It also applies if they are perceived to be trans. So you can't bully someone on the basis that you think they're trans, even if they're not.

The guidelines that have been given to BG are wrong.

Each protected characteristic carries the same weight. And you have to balance them in order to be fair to everyone. It's about fairness.

Transactivists like Stonewall, Mermaids and Allsorts, have done a real number convincing people that trans trumps all the rest. It doesn't.

Their advice also contravenes safeguarding policies that have been decades in the making. Safeguarding policies that Girl Guides, Swim England, and the NSPCC enforce, for everyone else unless they're trans.

The NSPCC were due to do a Facebook chat about some of their initiatives, and MN members were asked to submit questions here to be addressed on Facebook.

One of their initiatives was called speak out stay safe. The question was asked when women and girls do speak out, they're called bigoted and told to shut up.

They were also asked how their safeguarding policies simply disappear if someone says they're trans.

The NSPCC pulled out of the chat. Because they cannot answer the questions. Other than to keep saying transgirls are girls, so there is no issue.

The other side of it, claiming that any transgressions from your gender box means you're the opposite sex is sinister.

In one generation, the category of female will consist of compliant, feminine girls ruled by the entitled boys who dominate their space. Girls' boundaries will be decided by men.

They already are.

The previous poster who said feminists saw this coming is right. Because, I guess, feminists have a better than average radar for sexism and misogyny.

Everything they predicted is coming true.

They have finally forced the government into consulting with the general public. And you can make your voices heard.

If you don't speak, no-one will listen.

Link below.

fairplayforwomen.com/

Late to the party

So we've all clocked that Aimee Challenor (transactivist for the Green party until recently) is on the Stonewall trans advisory panel so would have been involved in advising british gymnastics on this policy?

And we're also all aware that Aimee Challenor's dad has just gone to prison as a paedophile, for raping and torturing a ten year old girl in the attic of hte family home where Aimee lived, and Aimee used him as his election TWICE after he was charged with these crimes? That David challenor went to prison for 22 years?

Is it also worth pointing out that at the time that Aimee Challenor - with the vicious peadophile dad who dressed up as a little girl called Lucy and wore adult nappies whilst he raped, tortured and electrocuted a little girl lashed to the roof beams of his attic - would have been advising on the British Gymnastics policy, his dad was working as a GYMNASTICS COACH?

And have we all clocked that after all this came to light, and the Green Party launched an investigation into Challenor, Stonewall refused to removed Aimee Challenor from their trans advisory panel because he's done 'good work'?

Seriously!?

I am being 100% entirely serious. These trans lobby groups have SERIOUS questions to answer. Policies based on self ID of gender result in the dissolution of safeguarding for women and children and we need to get a lot, lot, lot better at asking - WHY would a movement largely made up of men (who say they are women) want that?

Oh god that's so sinister. I feel sick.

Ffs. The more you uncover these things, the worse it seems for women and girls. They really are just pawns in all this.

These trans lobby groups have SERIOUS questions to answer.

Stonewall have been asked repeatedly to confirm that a lesbian is a female homosexual. They have refused.

Because it undermines their stance that a man can be a woman, and therefore a lesbian.

Stonewall, for gods sake!

When I was a teenager Stonewall were admired, brave, determined.

Now they are allowing men who employ paedophiles to advise on their child safeguarding policy?

What the fuck has happened to them.

Very good Question

I also heard that Gender Specialists at GIDS (the Tavi) are saying privately that the biggest interference with their child and adolescent patients is not coming from schools, the state, parents or social services but ADULT MALE STRANGERS ON THE INTERNET (trans women).

We all need to stop trying to be nice and putting our fingers in our ears and saying 'la la la' and start actually applying some critical thinking to all this.

WHY was a paedophile gymnastics coach working closely with a member of the stonewall trans advisory panel at the time that stonewall were advising British Gymnastics on their policy? WHY?

And actually, another tragedy of all this is this utter nightmare does absolutely NOTHING to help genuine trans people or 'trans rights' - this is a movement run by adult male crossdressers and WTF are they up to?

Such good points here. I have called BG and asked to speak to the author of the policy. I am waiting a call back. I will also email but I think a call is also good as it gives them now time to formulate an official party line.

"WHY was a paedophile gymnastics coach working closely with a member of the stonewall trans advisory panel at the time that stonewall were advising British Gymnastics on their policy? WHY?"

This is a very good question! What baffles me is why this isn't being asked by the mainstream media.

"WHY was a paedophile gymnastics coach working closely with a member of the stonewall trans advisory panel at the time that stonewall were advising British Gymnastics on their policy? WHY?"

And. Since women are actually asking this question, and Stonewall know it, why aren't they answering?

*When I was a teenager Stonewall were admired, brave, determined.

Now they are allowing men who employ paedophiles to advise on their child safeguarding policy?

What the fuck has happened to them.*

They became part of an establishment which offered careers to ambitious people. In doing so, they attracted people who were there for their careers. It's inevitable.

Like every other organisation driven by careerists, they will do what they perceive is best for their careers. Not what's best for their members or supporters.

employing paedophiles to advise on their child safeguarding policy
^^this
Ok, wasn't known at the time, but is now. Surely this must call the policy into question?

Beamur

If you're quoting me, you missed off the beginning of the sentence. FYI.

Now they are allowing men who employ paedophiles to advise on their child safeguarding policy?

If you look at the very small world these people move in (they're all on boards, and consortiums and advisory panels, and on charity boards, and government advisory panels etc etc etc) then there is absolutely NO WAY they didn't know about Challenor. Everybody knew.

Why this regression? How many years have we fought against gender stereotyping only to have it (not so slowly) reinforced again.

Because patriarchy
Because pushback
Because why the fuck shouldn't men have whatever they want and who are women (and children) to say no?

Of course teh children dont' say no.
The women have to keep their eyes peeled and say it for them.
This is why safeguarding.
Because it is VERY easy to manipulate children into doing whatever you want them to do.

This is horrible and so alarming. Why is the mainstream media not picking up on this? The media is happy to pick up on other stuff on MN but when real issues affecting women are being discussed we are ignored

Datun
My mistake, I misread and then only part repeated. Apologies.

This is Stonewall's current transadvisory group

www.stonewall.org.uk/trans-advisory-group

Some of them are worth a google.

I really want to raise this with DD's club, but tbh I don't know where to start on this mess of a policy. It goes against all the safeguarding teaching. When I'm teaching children about living and growing etc, part of that is teaching them that if something/someone makes them feel uncomfortable they should tell a trusted adult. How does that work to help them protect themselves if they're not allowed to feel uncomfortable? Why are girls/women not allowed to have any boundaries? This is insanity. I want anyone to be able to participate in sport, but in a way which is fair and safe. This is neither. As for them now being allowed to wear shorts, I do have to laugh that something which has been forbidden to girls is suddenly allowed.

One thing everyone can do is fill in the Government consulation on changes to the GRA, as if Self Sex ID gets enshrined in law there will be no arguing with policies like this. Currently we can as this is AHEAD of the law.

Fair Play for Women have done some easy step by step guidance and some comprehensive guidance here fairplayforwomen.com/how-to/

If short and snappy bullet pointed guidance is more your thing (and for a different perspective on women's issues with Self ID) Woman's place have also done some guidance here womansplaceuk.org/wpuk-guidance-on-gra-consultation/

If you're going to have a go at writing to BG, then FPFW's stuff on the Girl Guides might be helpful, as lots of the key points on equality act exemptions and safeguarding are the also apply to BG fairplayforwomen.com/sisterstoallguides/

And for those really short on time, here's Helen Watts, the GG leader who blew the whistle, summarising her concerns here in a two minute audio (again they overlap with BG) fairplayforwomen.com/helen-watts/

I'd it'd be also useful to know if BG did an Equality Impact Assessment? (sorry if these points already raised, busy day, I'm only dipping in on this thread)