AIBU in thinking British Gymnastics new guidelines are disadvantaging girls and putting them in danger?

[GColdtimer]

I have just seen the BG new guidelines on inclusion (here.

They go against all of their own safeguarding policies by saying that children should use the changing room of the gender in which they identify (so boys who identify as girls can use the girls changing room. Their own safeguarding guidelines state changing rooms should be single sex.

They then say if the girls don't like it they can go elsewhere. If an individual remains unhappy about a trans person using facilities appropriate to their gender identity, then they should make alternative arrangements

They also say the same for residential trips. And because privacy is of greatest important (although not for girls it would seem), a teenage girl (or her parents) may not be told she is sharing a room with a teenage boy (who identifies as a girl.)

This goes against all of their published safeguarding guidelines which says there should be single sex changing rooms, washing facilities and sleeping arrangements (for trips).

They also say children under 16 can compete in the gender they identify with. So boys can compete against the girls if they wish.

(Girls can also complete against boys but its highly unlikely they will).

Their guidelines on gender also, say Signs can appear at a very young age e.g. a child refusing to wear typical clothes of their gender or taking part in non- typical games. I'd better tell my short haired, trouser wearing, rugby playing niece that the leading governing body for one of the most popular sports for children believe she is actually a boy.

AIBU in thinking this is sexist and dangerous and BG should be held to account?

Thanks Girlscout that is all really helpful. I will share that on my FB as have lots of interesting chats on the school run today following my FB post last night.

I called BG. The person who wrote the guidelines refused to talk to me. She admitted she was the author but said it was no longer her responsibility and said I had to talk to the integrity director and hung up on me. Called Richard Evans. Receptionist said he was in a meeting with the directors discussing the trans policy. I asked for him to phone me back as soon as he was out of the meeting. When I called I was in a long queue and receptionist indicated they'd had a lot of calls today!

He hasnt called me.

Anyone else had any response?

twofalls

Wow. This is brilliant. Thank you.

twofalls

Well done to you for chasing this up. The Scout Association has not responded, as far as I'm aware, as to when the recently convicted paedophile David Challenor stood down from a leadership role. They all seem to hope that by staying schtum it'll all go away.

Personally, I treat silence on these matters as them having something they don't want us to know.

hung up on me

Well that was rude.

"The Scout Association has not responded, as far as I'm aware, as to when the recently convicted paedophile David Challenor stood down from a leadership role. They all seem to hope that by staying schtum it'll all go away."

This is appalling.

That person was involved in multiple orgs that gave access to children. Scouts, gymnastics, wheelchair basketball, I think it was. Paedophiles are highly maipulative people who are good at getting others "onside". I would be amazed if the offences they were convicted for were their first, they were extreme, sex offenders work their way up, they start smaller.

Scouts need to be giving some fucking reassurance right now.

I also suspect that they were the driving force behind a lot of what their child lobbied for. Aimee is young and this is their dad. They buitl terfblocker with them - they were close. Worrying is that Aimee seems to share some, um, interests with their dad and other much older men. All very worrying. Why this is all so quiet is beyond me. A predatory paedophile with a direct line into orgs like BG, via Stonewall, via their child, influencing policy. In contact with multiple childrens orgs. Either scouts are hoping it will go away OR they aren't saying anything reassuring becasue they can't because they don't know WTF he was up to.

I cannot understand how anyone could think that this is an acceptable policy.
It would seem that girls really don't matter.

YANBU omg that's ridiculous. And the idea of sharing a bedroom overnight without the girl's parent's knowing - terrifying!

Conversely a female who identifies as a boy can use the male changing room and be a potential "danger". It cuts both ways.

But seriously, this is not even vaguely like the prison story. A poor trans kid who is taking the seriously brave step of using different facilities deserves support rather than hatred. Boys do not dress up and pretend to be girls to sneak into their changing rooms.

Just wondering, did he have any archery links

It doesn't cut both ways @busybarbara because transits and transmen don't tend to be in a rush to use male facilities. Most of them continue to use female facilities until they are 100% confident that they pass.

Not to mention that girls and women as a class are not a threat to boys and men. Boys and men as a class however are a threat to girls and women.

Letting boys who claim to identify as girls into female changing rooms is a far greater risk to the girls than it would be to boys in male changing rooms if a girl who identifies as a boy was allowed in. In fact it would be more risky for the girl who identifies as a boy to use the boys changing rooms than it would be for the boys.

Notice how transmen aren't shouting about being allowed into male prisons, sports, changing rooms, etc. Perhaps have a think about why that is.

Transits? Meant transboys obviously.

@PinkyU, actually I would object to sharing a space where I get naked with a disabled MAN, or a BAME man, or a gay MAN (as well as a transwoman). The common denominator is that they're all MEN and I'm a woman. I'm entitled to privacy and dignity when getting undressed. This has NOTHING to do with being bigoted. I'm entitled to SEX segregated spaces.

Busybarbara so because a boy has been brave girls have to put aside any of their feelings of embarrassment or discomfort. My friend who dies t ever get political contacted me last night and says she'd written to BG because she discussed it with her 13 year daughter who was horrified at getting changed in front of a boy, however they identified. But in your world, her feelings don't matter.

What would you say to my friends 13 year old daughter?

Boys do not dress up and pretend to be girls to sneak into their changing rooms.

Why would they need to dress up?

FFS Barbara aren't you listening?
The point about self ID is that a boy/man wouldn't even have to dress up 'as a girl' in order to access the area. If self ID is passed you cannot question a male bodied person in a female space because if they say they are a woman in the eyes of the law they are. You can't shoo them out of changing rooms.

We're not just talking about gymnastics here. Think of an open plan female changing room at swimming or the gym. Male bodied person comes in, has shower, struts about in the buff, looks at as many women and girls as they like, who feel very uncomfortable/threatened/unsafe but cannot express their distress/call the manager/police. Got a penis? No problem because 'Some women have penises. Get over it'

Think about it.

Male bodied person comes in, has shower, struts about in the buff, looks at as many women and girls as they like, who feel very uncomfortable/threatened/unsafe but cannot express their distress/call the manager/police

It’s truly frightening.

It’s basically a free pass for any male predator or paedophile to get access to naked female women and children and there’s not a damn thing that anyone can do about it.

It’s ludictous to imagine a fully dressed man just walking into a female changing room and being able to sit down and look at whichever female/child he wishes to and all he has to say is “I’m a woman” to be allowed to do it.

It’s sickening and disgusting to think this will be allowed to happen and women have no say in the matter, they just have to shut up and go along with it.

I honestly can’t believe that people don’t see an issue with this going ahead. Like I said, it’s utterly frightening.

I am so sick of this! Really worried for girls.

As for liking wearing non typical clothes etc, that would make my very feminine 4 yo trans then because she likes wearing trousers?!

The safeguarding issue for girls here is clearly massive but even aside from that it’s about privacy and dignity. At work we recently got gender neutral toilets and it’s made me feel very uncomfortable, not because I think my male colleagues are a danger in any way but because it’s really awkward the thought we might be in adjoining cubicles hearing each other piss. I don’t want to have that level of intimacy with a man. So far I have waited till there are no men in the toilet before going in.

Just to update, I have had an email back from Richard saying he is aware I am trying to get hold of him and he will get back to me today. Anyone else had any response?

Conversely a female who identifies as a boy can use the male changing room and be a potential "danger". It cuts both ways.

Males are responsible for 98% of sexual assaults. You really think girls are a danger to boys? That is absurd.

I've tweeted them several times and zero response.

Can everyone who has contacted them please email [email protected]

Yet again another blinkered person enile NOONE on here thinks transpeople are sex offenders. Sex offenders are going to be given carte blanche to enter women only spaces if this goes through because if they say they are a woman - and that's all - they get access.

Never mind our privacy. Never mind a level playing field in sports.

Sex offenders have already entered women's spaces using the trans card.

You may not agree that Karen White or the father of Aimee Challoner actually are trans and entitled to the access they made use of. But the fact stands that the current situation permits no way to tell who is genuinely trans and who is using a trans ID to enable their sex offending. And even if you don't believe those people truly are trans, surely you can't believe that while some women are sex offenders and some men are sex offenders it is somehow absolutely impossible that any trans person can ever be a sex offender?

Can everyone please email or call Richard Evans, so called integrity fucking director telling him where the trans guidelines contradict their safeguarding advice. He tells me they don't and quoted the equalities act at me.

0345 1297129 Ext. 2693
07860852605
[email protected]

(this is public record, it is on his email sign off).

He said he didn't know enough about it. They didn't consult with the organisations listed and they don't endorse them apparently. When I asked him to take the guidelines down pending an investigation he refused. He was an arrogant arsehole and I am fucking fuming. He told me I have to wait for his official response, he was not going to discuss it with me over the phone.