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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU in thinking British Gymnastics new guidelines are disadvantaging girls and putting them in danger?

278 replies

GColdtimer · 12/09/2018 14:20

I have just seen the BG new guidelines on inclusion (here.

They go against all of their own safeguarding policies by saying that children should use the changing room of the gender in which they identify (so boys who identify as girls can use the girls changing room. Their own safeguarding guidelines state changing rooms should be single sex.

They then say if the girls don't like it they can go elsewhere. If an individual remains unhappy about a trans person using facilities appropriate to their gender identity, then they should make alternative arrangements

They also say the same for residential trips. And because privacy is of greatest important (although not for girls it would seem), a teenage girl (or her parents) may not be told she is sharing a room with a teenage boy (who identifies as a girl.)

This goes against all of their published safeguarding guidelines which says there should be single sex changing rooms, washing facilities and sleeping arrangements (for trips).

They also say children under 16 can compete in the gender they identify with. So boys can compete against the girls if they wish.

(Girls can also complete against boys but its highly unlikely they will).

Their guidelines on gender also, say Signs can appear at a very young age e.g. a child refusing to wear typical clothes of their gender or taking part in non- typical games. I'd better tell my short haired, trouser wearing, rugby playing niece that the leading governing body for one of the most popular sports for children believe she is actually a boy.

AIBU in thinking this is sexist and dangerous and BG should be held to account?

OP posts:
eniledam · 12/09/2018 15:24

Okay. Why are you so upset that a transgirl might share a room with your daughter?

eniledam · 12/09/2018 15:25

@PamsterWheel Thanks - I hadn't considered this. Good point.

reluctantbrit · 12/09/2018 15:25

DD's ex gymnastic coach plays Rugby on county level :-)

NothingOnTellyAgain · 12/09/2018 15:26

" That a teenage boy would go to such drastic lengths to ensure that they shared a room with a girl?"

hahahahahaha!

have you met any teenage boys :D

Mummyoflittledragon · 12/09/2018 15:26

eniledam
Because my dd doesn’t want to should be reason enough. The sensitivities of a transchild should not be placed as more important than another child.

VladTheOutrager · 12/09/2018 15:28

Why does everyone on Mumsnet seem to assume that all transgirls are sex attackers?

They don't, they just don't want their female children getting changed in front of male children.

What's the benefit for females of having penises in their spaces?

OP - Sex is a protected characteristic, refer them to this information from the Citizens Advice Bureau - Single Sex Spaces.

It's lawful to provide single sex spaces when "the services are of a type that you would object to someone of the opposite sex being there - for example, separate changing rooms or a service involving personal hygiene".

NothingOnTellyAgain · 12/09/2018 15:28

eeniledam

when you put cocky and cunty teenagers in bedrooms together
there is a risk that sex will ensue
there is with m/m and f/f also
the difference is
risk of pregnancy

no?

arranfan · 12/09/2018 15:30

British Gymnastics contact page and depts.

www.british-gymnastics.org/contact-us

www.british-gymnastics.org/contact-us/399-departments

  1. Contact the CEO and the Safeguarding Dept. of British Gymnastics and ask
-how the decision was made -what consultation took place

[email protected]

[email protected]

  1. Mark your emails for attention CEO and Safeguarding Dept if you use the web contact form - use their names if you have them.
  1. Cc to your local/regional club/group and make it clear you are expecting a reply. Regional secretaries addresses:

www.british-gymnastics.org/contact-us/403-regional-secretaries

  1. Follow up in 7 days.
PenguindreamsofDraco · 12/09/2018 15:32

What even is a 'transgirl' (aside from a truly foul twitter tag). No GRC, no (one hopes) puberty blockers, no (again, one hopes) surgery.

So basically a teenage boy with teenage boy hormones and a teenage boy penis who 'feels' like a girl? And all the other teenage girls should be able to disregard the teenage boy penis and somehow sense that inside he feels just like they do? Come the fuck off it.

Ereshkigal · 12/09/2018 15:34

Because my dd doesn’t want to should be reason enough. The sensitivities of a transchild should not be placed as more important than another child.

THIS

PamsterWheel · 12/09/2018 15:37

I'd be more concerned with gender fluid and non binary (born males) teenagers sharing with girls (born females). In 5 years all the trendy teens will be gender fluid so hey all bunk in together then. What could possibly go wrong?

Nobody seems to have thought of that enil which makes me feel really sad and has repurcussions on how girls feel about themselves, their bodies, the male gaze etc as they grow older.

FlyingElbows · 12/09/2018 15:38

I think the term "lady-dick" should make it blindly fucking obvious why any patent has concerns about their pubescent daughters! Ffs surely you've been (or currently are) a teenager? It's really not hard to see why parents might be just a teeny bit concerned.

lilybetsy · 12/09/2018 15:39

That is really disgraceful. Just shocking and so out of order wrt girls feelings that I honestly don't know what to say....

I have sons, but if I had a daughter I would complain very very loudly about this ridiculous policy

sexnotgender · 12/09/2018 15:40

You hadn’t considered that naked/semi naked teenage and younger girls might be uncomfortable getting changed with a Male? Really, are you that obtuse?

VickyEadie · 12/09/2018 15:50

I've spent a considerable part of my professional life dealing with safeguarding of children and young people.

That we're even having a discussion - in which at least one person appears to think objecting to a male-bodied youth (up to the age of 16) changing or even sharing sleeping accommodation with girls is somehow bizarre - astonishes me.

ImPreCis · 12/09/2018 15:50

It’s the Girl Guides all over again, almost word for word. Mmmmm, I wonder who is advising them?
Even if the changing room situation was considered acceptable, which I certainly don’t believe it is, British Gymnastics also refer to this being the situation on residential trips, where in order to facilitate confidentiality, parents will NOT be informed that their daughter is sharing a room with a teenage boy.
I do not understand how this stands up to scrutiny with regards to safeguarding. As a licensed chaperone the guidelines in theatre are completely clear, dressing rooms separated by sex, not gender.

Prestonsflowers · 12/09/2018 15:50

Women and girls have feelings and rights.
By putting trans girls in with natal born girls the trans girls’ rights are being put over and above the rights feelings of natal born girls

The answer that trans girls are girls is a crock of shit.
Nobody can change their sex
How the fuck would a boy have a clue what it feels like to be a girl
No male born person can feel like a woman.
I’m a woman and I have no idea what it feels like to be a man.
Once again women’s rights are being thrown under the bus by men.

Finnwood · 12/09/2018 15:53

YANBU

Jesus wept.

MissConductUS · 12/09/2018 15:56

YANBU.

I have a 16 year old daughter and I'm pleased to report that things have not reached this level of lunacy in the US yet, but I'm fearful for the future.

cloudtree · 12/09/2018 15:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Prestonsflowers · 12/09/2018 15:59

I should have added Op
YANBU
it’s outrageous
@ImPreCis
The answer given is that as trans girls are girls it’s not a safeguarding issue.

WSPU · 12/09/2018 16:01

Sadly predictable but of course YANBU.

sexnotgender · 12/09/2018 16:02

That’s great cloudtree, how stunning and brave!

averylongtimeago · 12/09/2018 16:06

No one should have to justify why they don't want to share intimate spaces with a person of the opposite sex.

It is enough that they don't want to.

Who does it benefit to do away with all the safeguarding rules? Who wants this?
Women don't.
None of the men I know do.
The teens I know (long standing Guider who also knows lots of Scouts) don't.

The only people who benefit from this are the sort of people you wouldn't want anywhere near children.

Saville and his pals will be cheering this on.

CarolDanvers · 12/09/2018 16:06

*i have daughter who loves gymnastics- it's what she's good at- and my jaw is on the floor right now!
how did we get to this point??? *

I keep seeing this question these days, how did this happen? How did we get here? I'll tell you how we got to this point. A decade ago feminists were raising concerns about this and being no platformed and shouted down. I remember a well known poster leaving this forum over this very argument. It went quiet for a bit and then three or four years ago the IOC changed their guidelines for competitors and a few more people started to take notice. They spoke up and again were shouted down, labelled transphobic and TERFS, right here on this board "oh not THIS again! Take your transphobic hate elsewhere! MN can't we have a board just to discuss this so it doesn't keep running our MN experience by having to see such bigoted discussions in active convos blah blah blah". We thankfully kept on talking and raising awareness but it wasn't enough and the changes are coming thick and fast and now they're affecting you and many others. Now you realise, now you know and the scary thing is it's probably far too late.