AIBU in thinking British Gymnastics new guidelines are disadvantaging girls and putting them in danger?

[GColdtimer]

I have just seen the BG new guidelines on inclusion (here.

They go against all of their own safeguarding policies by saying that children should use the changing room of the gender in which they identify (so boys who identify as girls can use the girls changing room. Their own safeguarding guidelines state changing rooms should be single sex.

They then say if the girls don't like it they can go elsewhere. If an individual remains unhappy about a trans person using facilities appropriate to their gender identity, then they should make alternative arrangements

They also say the same for residential trips. And because privacy is of greatest important (although not for girls it would seem), a teenage girl (or her parents) may not be told she is sharing a room with a teenage boy (who identifies as a girl.)

This goes against all of their published safeguarding guidelines which says there should be single sex changing rooms, washing facilities and sleeping arrangements (for trips).

They also say children under 16 can compete in the gender they identify with. So boys can compete against the girls if they wish.

(Girls can also complete against boys but its highly unlikely they will).

Their guidelines on gender also, say Signs can appear at a very young age e.g. a child refusing to wear typical clothes of their gender or taking part in non- typical games. I'd better tell my short haired, trouser wearing, rugby playing niece that the leading governing body for one of the most popular sports for children believe she is actually a boy.

AIBU in thinking this is sexist and dangerous and BG should be held to account?

This is disgusting. I have a 14yo talented gymnast. There is no way she would be getting changed in front of anyone with a penis. So if some 15 yo boy was a bit confused and decided one day to self ID as a girl he could be in a changing room with her.

My other DD has liked nothing “girly” since she could talk I had better tell her she is now a boy.

I will never be able to understand how biological males are now able to dictate their access to female spaces. It is the most spectacular misogyny to decide that females deserve no privacy, and no space away from men.

I'd be v interested to know if the reverse happens - do transgender males try to use the men's changing rooms? Do they want to?

My daughters are very happy that they left school a couple of years ago before this madness started.
They could name several boys in each year group who would have ID'd as females just because it beats hanging around the girls changing rooms to sneak a peek.
They could name even more who would have ID'd as females so they could sleep in the same room as their girlfriends.

To deny this would happen is foolish. Because let's face it all the boys have to do is say hey I'm a girl. That's it. They aren't required to make any changes. They don't have to change how they dress because how many girls dress in trousers etc and are girls, despite what the loons who created the policy try and claim.

To have people simply claim they are something is open to abuse, and anyone who fails to recognise this, well, what sheltered lives you have. There are always people who will use loopholes to their benefit.

And why should girls or woman have to explain? Do we have to explain why we don't want to have sex for example? No, we don't. No is and should always be no. There should never be cause to give an explanation to do something we are uncomfortable doing. When he have to start giving explanations, this is when we start to be coerced and talked into doing things we aren't comfortable doing. Just because you are happy to share a space and be undressed with a male doesn't mean that everyone else should be. There are many, many reasons why others aren't comfortable. Their wishes should be listened to and respected not trampled aside.

I am friends with a woman who did competitive gymnastics to a high level for years growing up. It gave her a lot of confidence and self-belief, and that mattered particularly given her father had been raping her since she was 5. I am quite sure the sport kept her alive. She simply wouldn't have turned up if there weren't female changing facilities.

I didn't do gymnastics but I did dance for a while. Boys were very welcome in our classes and the few who came were thought of very fondly but most of my time was spent with girls. I had a tough time at home - it was nothing like what my friend endured but those hours with just girls sharing our concerns about puberty and school and families was so valued. Many of my friends went through stages of being bullied by their fathers or got themselves into abusive relationships. Statistically some of them will also have experienced sexual abuse at home. Girls matter just as much as trans girls. Many desperately need their extracurricular activities. They can be the difference between a girl being ok and getting through adolescence and not doing so - it is as plain as that.

Leaving aside sexual assault and religion as reasons not to have Male bodies in private female spaces such as this.

Any of the females feeling uncomfortable about the situation should be a sufficient reason not to do it. EVERYONE’S boundaries should matter. Stop teaching girls they don’t matter, it’s fucking criminal.

I fully agree with you sexnotgender. In my opinion a simple NO should be enough, no need for any justification. I just brought religion up as sometimes people are too busy being woke and, like sooooo super inclusive (eye roll) that they don't think about the ramifications for women and girls who are part of a conservative faith and cannot be around males.

Does this not breach the EA2010? sex being a protected characteristic.

What I don’t understand about the whole debate is how sex and gender have become conflated. Couldn’t everything just be done on the basis of sex?

The other thing that strikes me as odd is he narrow definitions of what it means to be female or male. People have spent decades trying to say there shouldn’t be boy/girl toys etc and then suddenly if you’re a boy who likes ballet you might be trans. It really isn’t healthy for either sex to be defined by narrow definitions of what they should be like, how they should act etc.

Most of the arguments for policy change just don’t seem to be consistent with existing policy approaches (eg safeguarding). Any policy with far reaching implications should be tested, debated and thought through. Sadly as can be seen by brexit, lots of policy-making is piss poor in general. It perhaps shouldn’t be surprising that no-one seems to have thought through what happens if (well when) self ID is abused. How many victims of sexual assault will be ok? Where will the tipping point be? There will be people that use self ID to abuse, rape and murder. How many victims will suffer before policy-makers say ‘lessons will be learnt’.

I have teenage girls and they are very self conscious about their bodies enough as it is, even around other girls, but absolutely don’t feel threatened in a girls only space. It’s a safe space for women amongst other women. It doesn’t matter if someone has a disability or their colour or if they are gay if they are female - you are still safe mentally, emotionally and physically.

I find it incredibly sad that their comfort and dignity doesn’t seem to matter any more. Someone who is identifying as female essentially has a more important protected charactistic than the females themselves. There is no grey area with this.

its Also very obvious that stripping off as a trans girl in a female space is significantly safer for THEM than doing so in a male space - that’s the point.

Females and males in the same space as a changing room, bathroom or bedroom have been segregated for safeguarding reasons. I don’t see education for men about accepting trans people into their spaces...?

So my teenage daughter's best friend identifies as a transmale. Yet when they go away this child shares a room with dd.
Now according to this bullshit dd best friend should be in with the boys! Cos they are a boy....
Thank God they don't want to put themselves in that position.

This is a massive safeguarding issue.

I went to school with a trans male (born female) and none of us ever had an issue with changing rooms and toilets etc. It was a girls school so they would have had to have left, as it was they just quietly obliged wirh uniform rules while they had to and I don’t believe at any point felt threatened or not accepted by any other students

Women are on the whole far less threatening and accepting.

Yes pookie why aren't men being educated as to why they should accept a male bodied transwoman in their space without bigotry?

It's putting the onus on other children to express and assert any discomfort or encroachment on their privacy that they might feel as well, or say nothing. Haven't we already learned what that means and the implications of such?

Any of the females feeling uncomfortable about the situation should be a sufficient reason not to do it. EVERYONE’S boundaries should matter. Stop teaching girls they don’t matter, it’s fucking criminal.

^ This!

@PamsterWheel

If anyone could give me a sensible answer I would be happy to hear it

Interesting that this is about the only sport that really differs depending on your sex. Perhaps it was prioritised by the trans activists for re-education.

Someone asked who advised them earlier. Stonewall and mermaids were definitely on the list. Will check tomorrow.

It was GIRES. I've complained, DD does gymnastics.

If an individual remains unhappy about a trans person using facilities appropriate to their gender identity, then they should make alternative arrangements

It's the arrogance that gets me. It's the total disdain for children and parents. What are the girls expected to do? Undress in a car? Put up and shut up? Leave the sport?

Is this the way that sports bodies encourage more girls to take up sports? They say that they want to encourage girls from minority ethnic groups (who are unable to share facilities with males of whatever age) but this sort of statement shows that they will work against the interests of ALL children.

This is the voice of Stonewall and the other TRA groups.

Drspouse it was them, mermaids, all the usual (last page)

My dd is 4 and does gymnastics and I will be raising this. I FUCKING HATE the term "assigned sex at birth" it makes no sense.

She also likes dinosaurs so i suppose she's a bit now anyway so no big deal

/boy not bit!/

Those with kids who do gym, did you get this from your club at all?. Dds coach shared it with me because he wanted my view (fb friend so knows my stance) but I haven't received it as part of official communication (very small club though). They sent it to clubs on 8th August sYing these are our new guidelines.

Totally agree Pam. This is forcing girls out of public spaces and public participation to suit a few boys.

To PP, that's v interesting that your DD's friend chooses to remain in girls' spaces yet believes themselves to be male. I wonder if that's a general trend. I think it was St Paul's Girls' School that has a high number of trans males who have chosen to remain in a girls' school. Which I just find makes a mockery of the notion of being trans.

And if transmales don't want to be in men's spaces all we're dealing with is an attack on women not a fight for trans rights to use the sex-based space of their choice.

Appears they didn’t consult parents, members or women & girls. Just the usual suspects. Shame on you BG.