AIBU in thinking British Gymnastics new guidelines are disadvantaging girls and putting them in danger?

[GColdtimer]

I have just seen the BG new guidelines on inclusion (here.

They go against all of their own safeguarding policies by saying that children should use the changing room of the gender in which they identify (so boys who identify as girls can use the girls changing room. Their own safeguarding guidelines state changing rooms should be single sex.

They then say if the girls don't like it they can go elsewhere. If an individual remains unhappy about a trans person using facilities appropriate to their gender identity, then they should make alternative arrangements

They also say the same for residential trips. And because privacy is of greatest important (although not for girls it would seem), a teenage girl (or her parents) may not be told she is sharing a room with a teenage boy (who identifies as a girl.)

This goes against all of their published safeguarding guidelines which says there should be single sex changing rooms, washing facilities and sleeping arrangements (for trips).

They also say children under 16 can compete in the gender they identify with. So boys can compete against the girls if they wish.

(Girls can also complete against boys but its highly unlikely they will).

Their guidelines on gender also, say Signs can appear at a very young age e.g. a child refusing to wear typical clothes of their gender or taking part in non- typical games. I'd better tell my short haired, trouser wearing, rugby playing niece that the leading governing body for one of the most popular sports for children believe she is actually a boy.

AIBU in thinking this is sexist and dangerous and BG should be held to account?

twofalls DD does gymnastics, I've heard nothing from her club about this. It's all being done on the quiet, in the hope nobody notices. So much for consultation.

OP, YANBU

For all the good reasons of privacy, dignity and safeguarding outlined above, but also for this:

Their guidelines on gender also, say Signs can appear at a very young age e.g. a child refusing to wear typical clothes of their gender or taking part in non- typical games.

It chills me to the core that adults in any position of responsibility over my children may even think this.

My granddaughters do gymnastics. I’ll be writing.

It chills me to the core that adults in any position of responsibility over my children may even think this

Completely agree. We have entered the twilight world.

If we accept that sexism-segregated spaces are a good thing, then we need to fight for our right to keep them sex segregated. Not say ‘well yes, sex segregated except for X Y and Z people who also wNt to use them’.

A poster on page 2 said think who actually wants this, what are their motives? It is a very good point. The only people this benefits are the kind of people you don’t want anywhere near your children.

theworldistoosmall

Everyone you said with bells on!

These policies are so open to abuse.

I'm disgusted with the way they are trying to say girls who are tomboyish maybe boys, boys who are "jessies" may actually be girls.

Actually it's always been more acceptable for girls to be a tomboy, than a boy to be a Jessie (West of Scotland term). There's been tomboys in various books thinking about George in Famous Five & Jo from Little Women and I'm sure their must be others. But I can't think of any positive Jessie type role models. Maybe we need some positive Jessie role models as surely not all effeminate boys must be transsexual or actually want to be a girl?

There is a big push to encourage girls into STEM subjects but according to BG if you like those subjects you must be a boy

Indeed I’d really like to know what they define as “non-typical” games for children - this is such backward nonsense

The other thing that strikes me as odd is he narrow definitions of what it means to be female or male. People have spent decades trying to say there shouldn’t be boy/girl toys etc and then suddenly if you’re a boy who likes ballet you might be trans. It really isn’t healthy for either sex to be defined by narrow definitions of what they should be like, how they should act etc.

We’ve got these posters up in our school. Our head teacher is very keen on not reinforcing gender stereotypes within school.

I have just sent this message to BG. my son and daughter attend, although they are very young this is a policy with worries me for the future
.......
Hello,

My daughter is a member of British Gymnastics and I'm concerned about your recently released policy on transgender inclusion.

www.british-gymnastics.org/documents/clubs-schools-and-leisure-centres/9680-transgender-policy-and-guidance-2018-v2-0

As you know there is currently no such thing as a legal gender expression, and the protected characteristic of Gender Reassignment applies only to Adults who have a GRC.

I am concerned that based on your new policy:

• You have taken advice from a small but vocal group of Trans Rights activists who have shown that they have no consideration of the rights of women and girls. Your use of some phrases shows that you have copied verbatim from these pressure groups.

• My daughter, as a fairly gender non-conforming individual, might be prompted by members of your organisation to question if she is a boy or a girl. Your guidance states that people who don't feel comfortable in the traditional clothing of their gender may be trans - this is backwards and regressive.

• Any Male student can, based only on their say-so, access any female locker rooms, sleeping areas or showers. This is a massive issue for the privacy and safety of the girls.

• Any male member of staff can, based on their say-so, access any female space. This is a massive issue for the privacy and safety of the girls.

As a side note my son is also a member of British Gymnastics. I am fully in support of males, females, straight, gay, and all taking part in this great sport. However, this policy shows that you put safeguarding of girls behind protecting the feelings of some individuals. There are much better ways to accomodate trans students without making women and girls uncomfortable and potentially unsafe.

Many thanks,

I'm so pissed off with this crap.
'Typical' clothing, 'typical ' activities - let's totally reinforce those bloody regressive stereotypes that have been making people miserable and women disadvantaged.
I would ask for clarification on those typical clothing/activities. I am repeatedly incredulous at the inability of the people in charge of writing these policies not to see it for the pile of nonsense it really is.
My DD has short hair and wears trousers - is she trans? Or is she just a girl who wants to have short hair (less tangles) and warm legs?

I don't have a firm opinion yet on the dressing room topic, as relatively new to the debate, but my daughter does attend pre-school BG activities.
But I find the tendency a bit worrying. I grew up a 100% tomboy, with no interest in "girly" activities, all my dolls were redesigned by me as action figures / astronauts / evil scientists before it was cool. I find it incredible that it could be perceived as starting to identify as a boy.
Isn't this thinking actually a step back into patriarchy? Oh, a boy shows interest in cooking or fashion, he must be a girl then, not a future chef or designer. Oh, a girl plays rugby, she must be a boy, it's so unfeminine.
(if there is a better place to go and discuss this, could someone show me the way pls - I am a total newbie in this topic)

That’s a great letter, tea.

I hope you don’t mind if I pinch a couple of paragraphs for when I do my safeguarding update training in October?

I’ll be in a room full of around 30 other safeguarding professionals and I can confidently predict that none of them will be aware of these developments and the probably that Allsorts madness will be arriving in our schools very soon.

thanks teafordad, that's a great letter. I am writing this morning.

Please do let us know if they reply.

My DD no longer does gymnastics but is still a member. I’ll be writing today to resign her membership.

Swim England reviewed their guidelines and reverted back I believe. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3160791-adult-males-can-now-shower-with-girls-at-swimming-pools?reverse=1

Thanks @teafordad for posting. That’s very helpful.

silvercuckoo come and find us on the Feminist chat board if you want to discuss this more. I don't post very much but lurk a lot - there are some amazing posters and some very enlightening discussions. There is another thread about this issue there but I decided to post here too because these issues need to be discussed by a wider group of people, by people who may even hide the feminist topic because they don't really have any interest in politics. I will find a particular thread in a minute which could be helpful.

Christ, I’ve just read their guidelines.

They really haven’t thought this through at all.

Cheers yes go ahead.
Strangely I feel quite nervous about bringing these things up. The chances of it applying to our area is tiny and maybe I shouldn't worry about it, but it seems like we should help organisations to know that most people think this is crazy.

Indeed I’d really like to know what they define as “non-typical” games for children - this is such backward nonsense

Definitely. Have people really been this sexist all along? While claiming to be oh so progressive? The irony is painful.

@Teafordad I feel the same - but isn’t that the way society tells us women should be? Don’t cause a fuss.

If there was ever a time to speak out, this is it.

We’re right behind you and will be following your lead today.

That's a great letter, TeaforDad.

Just a heads up TeaforDad, gender reassignment protection DOES apply to children who have made a decision to transition.
This means nobody can bully them, refuse to admit them to a (mixed) school or club, refuse to give their family a home etc. etc.
It doesn't mean that they are legally, or in any other way, the opposite sex. It's perfectly legal to have single sex spaces that, therefore, exclude these individuals.

Adults who have a GRC are legally the opposite sex (there are ways round letting them in women's spaces but that's not really the issue here given the tiny number of adults with a GRC).

that's the thing though isn't tea. Its really easy for us to think "ah well, it probably won't ever effect us" and just do nothing. In all honesty we are a tiny club and its unlikely to ever be an issue but that is why we all need to club together to challenge the madness. So well done

@twofalls
Thank you, I'll probably lurk for some time around before saying anything at all.

So the onus is on BG to accommodate trans children without impacting on girls? That seems fair and reasonable. And all we’ve been saying all along.

Re swim england
Found the thread saying they were rethinking their stance
It was back in March and it still says doc under review
Maybe they will just leave it there, and things continue with any bloke who says he's female can go trotting in...

No OP YANBU.

Any lowering of safeguarding standards, for whatever reason, is sinister and makes me wonder what the real agenda is.